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Why are you still here? (part 3 in a continuing series)
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[Steve Connor] “Almost no-one here has praised Apple for their horrendous handling of the FCS3 EOL and those of us who choose to praise FCPX for what it is do so not out of any ideology, but out of the fact the software works for us in practical terms.”
A couple threads up, Bill D. spoke at length [link] about why it’s actually a good thing that FCPX lacks range export.
Personally, I think there’s a lot in FCPX to like. I understand why it’s so appealing to so many. It deserves criticism for what it does poorly, but likewise, it also deserves praise for what it does well.
But David asks good questions. What if we separate our thinking of the brand from the product? If it weren’t trendy and innovative Apple — if it weren’t the ones who have just reinvented music, entertainment, and mobile computing — if the NLE ideas in FCPX had to compete on their merits alone — how would they fare in the marketplace?
If Developer X had released Magneto-Data-Edit 1.0 on the App Store last year, would it have even registered a blip on the post production industry radar?
If Maya 2013 were to be built from the ground up with some clever brand new ideas, no backwards compatibility, and major functionality (MEL scripting?) missing — essentially threatening the future of any studio built on “legacy” Maya — would anyone defend Autodesk?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Christian Schumacher] “”Each human being has been endowed with a self of his or her own, different from all others,
so that it could all the more surely be made the same”“
Great quote
Steve Connor
“FCPX Professional”
Adrenalin Television -
[Richard Herd] “Have you read Horkeimer and Adorno’s Dialectic of Enlightenment?”
No, both the Western notion of Enlightenment and its critiques are not of great interest to me. I believe an individual can see reality clearly only when he strips his mind of all illusions, something the Enlightenment got only half right, the post-modernists believe is impossible and the Buddhists elevated to a practice during the thousand years that spanned the Common Era.
But we digress…
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Richard Herd] “I installed floorboards and trim around my house. At first I used a nail gun but it proved too cumbersome for such a small job. So I used a tack hammer instead. That is, the nail gun is an improvement on the tack hammer, but my job was so small I needed to use the other tool, the less complex tool.”
I don’t think a nailgun is an improvement on a tack hammer at all. They are different tools to meet different needs. A nailgun would be terrible for upholstery, and a tack hammer would be terrible for framing.
[Richard Herd] “I’ll let the ideologues debate whether X is the nail gun or the tack hammer.”
Whichever it may be, it’s not the same kind of hammer that FCP7 was — and that’s one of the major points made over and over on this forum. FCP7 met needs that FCPX does not.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “But David asks good questions. What if we separate our thinking of the brand from the product? If it weren’t trendy and innovative Apple — if it weren’t the ones who have just reinvented music, entertainment, and mobile computing — if the NLE ideas in FCPX had to compete on their merits alone — how would they fare in the marketplace?
Interesting question, perhaps we could ask some of the people on here if they chose to use FCPX because it was made by trendy and innovative Apple, or simply because they liked the way the software worked?
[Walter Soyka] “If Developer X had released Magneto-Data-Edit 1.0 on the App Store last year, would it have even registered a blip on the post production industry radar? “
Not without Apples marketing and visibility, but some of us who like new ideas would have found it.
[Walter Soyka] “If Maya 2013 were to be built from the ground up with some clever brand new ideas, no backwards compatibility, and major functionality (MEL scripting?) missing — essentially threatening the future of any studio built on “legacy” Maya — would anyone defend Autodesk?
“Well I know it’s not quite the same but Autodesk had an “FCPgate” of their own with Edit, only they chose not to replace it at the time!
Steve Connor
“FCPX Professional”
Adrenalin Television -
[David Cherniack] “But we digress…”
That could also be a name for this forum
Steve Connor
“FCPX Professional”
Adrenalin Television -
This thread had stayed remarkably on-topic before — but I do find this digression quite interesting. Thanks for indulging me.
[Steve Connor] “Interesting question, perhaps we could ask some of the people on here if they chose to use FCPX because it was made by trendy and innovative Apple, or simply because they liked the way the software worked?”
My guess is that mostly everyone here initially tried it because it says “Final Cut Pro” on the label.
Anyone still using it is probably doing so because they legitimately like it, as you do. I am happy for you that you’ve found something that’s working well for you. As I said, I think there’s a lot in FCPX to like. I wish you many successful projects and many happy clients.
On this question, though, I’d also ask how many people who are using and loving FCPX now are comparing it only to FCP7. In other words, how many tried MC5.5, PrP CS5.5, and FCPX before choosing FCPX versus defaulting to FCPX?
Of course, I do think that many would still choose FCPX after trying all the alternatives because they would like it. I’m not saying FCPX offers no value. I am saying that I think David’s on to something in suggesting that some of that perceived value comes from our collective ideas about Apple and their history, rather than just from FCPX itself.
[Steve Connor] “Not without Apples marketing and visibility, but some of us who like new ideas would have found it.”
I don’t care if an idea is new or old. I’m interested in good ideas. There are many good ideas in FCPX, but there are some really bad ones, too. There were a lot of good ideas in FCP7 that didn’t survive. It’s a shame.
I’m not so sure that good ideas draw the kinds of attention you’re suggesting.
What if Microsoft had developed FCPX and made it Windows-only? How many current FCPX users would have switched to a PC if that’s what they had to do to get it?
There were some new and interesting ideas in the PC-only Avid Liquid (including some familiar ones like continuous save, no separate dedicated audio or video tracks, background rendering and GPU processing — all this in the early 2000s), but it never got much traction.
There are some really interesting ideas in PC-only Sony Vegas (like treating visual processing similarly to classic audio processing, offering clip, track, and output processing), but it’s never even mentioned here.
[Steve Connor] “Well I know it’s not quite the same but Autodesk had an “FCPgate” of their own with Edit, only they chose not to replace it at the time!”
DRW and Herb seemed like they were just starting to calm down about this. You’re going to get them all riled up again!
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “On this question, though, I’d also ask how many people who are using and loving FCPX now are comparing it only to FCP7. In other words, how many tried MC5.5, PrP CS5.5, and FCPX before choosing FCPX versus defaulting to FCPX?
“I had been an Avid user in the late 90’s and early 00’s. I knew it pretty well. I even had my FCP 7 keyboard laid out more like a MC keyboard than Apple. So when FCP X, PP 5.5 and MC 6 came out at the same time I tried each. I got frustrated with Adobe and Avid because I wanted them to act exactly like FCP7, and of course they didn’t. I think because I knew FCP X was different, I had no such expectations, I found X to be very “fun” to edit with, and fast. Now i find it to be useful at times but at other times a big pain in the backside. I am looking forward to seeing what PP 6 looks like and I will defiantly try it, however I still have high hopes that FCPX will turn out to be a killer editing app.
don walker
texarkana, texasJohn 3:16
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These are only my experiences, so YMMV, but to answer the questions Steve and Walter brought up.
[Steve Connor] “Interesting question, perhaps we could ask some of the people on here if they chose to use FCPX because it was made by trendy and innovative Apple, or simply because they liked the way the software worked?”
I downloaded it because I was curious. However, if I’m being honest, I would say that the fact it was an Apple product and I liked FCP7 so much made the decision easier. I had no illusions that they were in any way similar other than they both edit video. But just as Photoshop lead me to After Effects so many years ago, I chose to trust Apple’s vision for the product. And even though I hated the UI at first, it has grown on me.
[Walter Soyka] “I’d also ask how many people who are using and loving FCPX now are comparing it only to FCP7. In other words, how many tried MC5.5, PrP CS5.5, and FCPX before choosing FCPX versus defaulting to FCPX?”
I compare it against all the NLEs I can use with any dexterity. This includes MC and Premiere as well as FCP7. For certain projects, I don’t even want to consider using FCP7, Avid, or Prem, because FCPX has made some editing that I do completely fun and breezy. By that same token, there are other projects (more complicated ones) that I can immediately see will cause me more headaches than not to do in X, and wouldn’t think of using it there. At this point, it includes most of my “day” job stuff (TV shows and the like). I would love to cut a multicam show on FCPX, but the audio flexibility isn’t there yet to even attempt it. It’s too bad though because putting together multiclips has NEVER been so easy.
[Walter Soyka] “There were some new and interesting ideas in the PC-only Avid Liquid (including some familiar ones like continuous save, no separate dedicated audio or video tracks, background rendering and GPU processing — all this in the early 2000s), but it never got much traction.”
I loved what I saw in Liquid back when it was Pinnacle. We were shopping for alternate NLEs at my news station, and this was one we looked at. Although they suffered from the “too many buttons” problem that has plagued Premiere, there were some great things about it. In particular, the continuous save, surround sound mixing via a very responsive and graphical UI. Being able to adjust luminance and color of a clip directly on the wave form and vector scope.
In my opinion, the reason these great ideas never got any traction in the marketplace was because Avid didn’t sell them. Soon after we demoed Liquid, Pinnacle was bought by Avid. At first I had hope that some of these ideas would be incorporated into MC, but no. Strangely, Avid decided to go to market with two separate NLEs that didn’t seem to fit together. It was/is a confusing idea. Even Avid didn’t seem to know how they wanted to position Liquid.
Andy
https://www.timesavertutorials.com
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[Steve Connor] ” “Well I know it’s not quite the same but Autodesk had an “FCPgate” of their own with Edit, only they chose not to replace it at the time!”
It’s far from the same thing. edit* had a small very share of the market. FCP was the dominant player everywhere (yes, I know, except Hollywood).
[Walter Soyka]“DRW and Herb seemed like they were just starting to calm down about this. You’re going to get them all riled up again!”
They only pretend they’ve calmed down. You have no idea what schemes of revenge were hatched against one Autodesk executive. Fortunately, none ever evolved past the level of thought crime.
David
AllinOneFilms.com
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