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What would say if you gave a commencement address to film school grads?
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Cliffs Notes: I’m in my mid/late 30’s, graduated w/a degree in radio/TV production in ’01, and have been gainfully employed (for the most part) in various parts of post production (primarily editing) in Los Angeles since 2004.
Whenever I talk to kids in HS or college my pitch is usually the same. If you want to make a lot of money do something else. If you want job security do something else. If you want the odds of success to be in your favor (or at least not overwhelmingly stacked against you) do something else. If you don’t handle rejection well do something else. There is no logical, objective argument to be made that makes getting into this industry look like a good idea. If nothing I just said gives you pause then screw it. Charge into an over saturated market full of low ballers, grinders, wannabes, thieves and liars and go for that brass ring. To hell with the odds. To hell with logic. Just swing for the fences. Disillusionment will get you killed, but if you go in knowing you’ll have to claw tooth and nail for your very existence then you might just make enough money to cover rent.
Crash and burn in your 20’s because for most people that’s the only time they won’t have the added responsibility of a spouse, kid(s), mortgage, comfy lifestyle and a ‘good enough’ paying job. When I moved out to LA from the Midwest pretty much everyone I worked with was like, “Good for you. Looking back I wish I would’ve taken the same leap of faith when I was your age.” I’d rather go broke failing than wondering “what if…?” the rest of my life (in fact I actually did go broke failing before I was able to turn things around).
Even if I was working at Burger King or won the PowerBall I’d still be editing. I can’t not edit. I can’t not create. Many years ago my father-in-law asked me, “So, what’s next after editing?” It was a sincere question. He comes from a business background and in business culture there is a clear hierarchy/ladder to climb. I said something about editing on bigger/more prominent projects, etc.,. but I was only half paying attention to the words coming out of my mouth because in my head I was like, “What kind of question is that? Would you ask Eric Clapton, “‘Hey, so what are your plans after this whole guitar playing thing?'” No, I’m not drawing a parallel between my skill and Mr. Clapton’s, but just that I can’t not edit anymore than a professional musician will stop playing music. Even when I’m retired I still see myself editing projects here and there (I’ll take those ‘no-pay’ CraigList gigs ’cause, why not, I’m retired).
Going slightly political for a moment, besides the problem of student debt, the majority of the job growth recently in the US has been at the low end and the largest employers in that sector are fast food places. Good, middle class jobs are disappearing in all industries, not just the entertainment industry and the number of college graduates working at minimum wage jobs has doubled in the past few years. Someone mentioned IT, and anything computer related (software development, video games, VFX, IT, etc.,) isn’t any better off. Hell, Disney World just laid off a few hundred of their IT staff and replaced them with people they hired in India and brought into the US on work visas (to add insult to injury, if you wanted the severance package then you had to stay on and spend a few weeks training your replacement).
All the more reason for grads to swing for the fences, IMO. If you are going to be stuck struggling to pay the bills no matter what you do you might has well chase your dreams in the process.
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We’ve been at this, what? Most of 20 years? (The WWUG was founded in June 1995! I started in 96.) This may be the first time I’ve disagreed with you. LOL But ever so gently and respectfully, I do.
[Nick Griffin] “But it doesn’t seem to be an informed roll of the dice. Where are the guidance counselors and college advisers who should be discussing reality with these young innocents? “
I talk about this a lot in my commencement address, but, spoiler alert, I think this is a FANTASTIC time to be getting into POST.
What I don’t recommend is the model you and I came up in. Get a degree, get some experience, start your own business doing everything. We’re still around, and many of us have a good 20 years left in the tank…but this ain’t the time to start doing THAT. After we’re gone, I can’t imagine that there’ll be more than a tiny handful of people following in our footsteps.
But for somebody who wants to EDIT, or somebody who wants to SHOOT, there have never been more options. I’d counsel anybody with drive to get into this business post-haste.
(SEE WHAT I DID THERE?)
But it would be working for The Man. Anybody who has an easily crushed entrepreneurial spirit really would be better off doing almost anything else. But a young creative person? Absolutely. Pedal to the metal. Flip the nitro. Go go go.
I’ll go ahead and give you the intro to my commencement address.
“Nothing about my experience is of any value to you. Nothing about my path to success will provide you any insight for your own future. The world I came up in is gone. For all the good it will do you in your own career, it might as well never have happened at all.
So why am I here? Because the one and only part of my experience with any value whatsoever is context.
And I’m here to tell you that there’s never been a better time to follow your passion into production and post. The context is, you have to also follow the jobs.”
Can’t wait to hear the rest, can you? LOL But that there’s my bottom line. There’s never been a better time to get into this industry…unless they want to do it the way you and I did, in which case they’re doomed. LOL
[Nick Griffin] “…pursue a degree in almost anything BUT journalism. Their argument was that, as long as she is a good writer, learning about other subjects that she can bring to a journalism career is far more valuable.”
I don’t have a problem with that advice. I have two degrees, and am not doing anything related to either. And I LOVED getting both of them, and do in fact use a lot of things I learned. Just not on purpose. LOL
But that’s not the same as telling her not to get into journalism I think.
Maybe in context that’s what they were saying, but to ME, the question isn’t whether you can get into journalism with a journalism degree. The answer is yes, of course you can, making the question not really worth asking.
What those guys are saying is, there’s nobody like me moving up the ranks. Of course not. Guys like us are fading away. What they SHOULD be saying is, the way I did it probably isn’t going to work for you. Which is true.
The question that implies is yeah, but how do I get there? The answer is NOT, “Study anything BUT journalism.” Not unless there’s a hiring manager somewhere saying, “Wow, I like everything about this young woman but her journalism degree. I HATE when people with journalism degrees apply for my journalism jobs.”
The larger question is, how narrow is the “journalism” target. If it’s “The Atlantic or bust,” sure, lotsa luck kid. But graduates of communication programs are working in lots of other areas. They just have to be willing to write for the joy of writing in something like PR or marketing, and save the journalism for their tumblr. I’d have to count to be sure, but I think the vast majority of PR people working with the COW have journalism/communications backgrounds.
Learning the details of an industry is child’s play. Knowing how to communicate can barely be taught at all. To the extent that it can, I’d vastly prefer somebody trained to write than somebody trained in my field but NOT trained to write.
You know what they’re ultimately telling her, though? “Get trained in writing AND get trained in lots of other fields. A liberal arts degree, kid. THAT’s what you want. Too much specialization will get in your way.”
To which I heartily agree.
[Nick Griffin] “I’ve seen multiple JDs over the years doing quite well in business because they are able to deal with levels of complexity that many others are not.”
Of course you have. I’m a firm believer in education, and for people our age, a law degree might have been a better bet than an MD.
But there’s no getting around that the employment rate for lawyers is dropping, salaries are dropping faster, and the number of LEGAL jobs that require law DEGREES isn’t just dropping. It’s PLUMMETING.
Seriously, over 43% of the legal profession no longer requires a law degree. Add to that the 11% of JDs who aren’t in ANY aspect of the law, and you’ve got LESS than a 50-50 shot at landing a job that requires a law degree! Only a 46% chance of landing a job that requires a law degree.
Less than 50-50! So how much is a law degree worth to TODAY’s graduate? A truckload less than even 10 years ago.
Although one of the articles I read on this topic a few minutes ago says that the law profession never really recovered from the recession of 1991. LOL
So, getting back to the starting point of my commencement address: jaundiced old guys are terrible resources. LOL
In trying to de-jaundice myself by looking at actual numbers, and leaving aside any of the details I got wrong about the above: I feel pretty firmly about this. It’s impossible for me to imagine a better time to get into this field, and I’m a pretty imaginative guy.
Quantification to follow, right on the heels of my commencement address. 🙂
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Some of you guys really see the glass half full, huh? I work cheek to jowl with the twenty-somethings in production (not post) and rates and prices are now so depressed they just can’t afford to go on into their thirties in the biz. Just reporting what I’ve been seeing, especially since The Crash, not theorizing.
A narrator I use for VO teaches at a local for profit broadcast school, the kind we denigrate, and a few years ago asked me to speak to his class about freelancing, finding work, managing clients, hassling to get your check, etc. I guess I scared them because afterwards he said next time please don’t hit them so hard, and I have not been asked back.
I think if someone has great computer skills there may be hope for them in our biz, perhaps in audio post, grading, animation, etc. and if the video biz won’t support them they can take their skill set to other fields. Geeks shall inherit the earth. The only other area I see a glimmer of hope is if a guy likes shooting, and his parents will buy him a package with basic lights and audio gear, and he has a vehicle large enough, then at least he has something to “offer”. Nowadays the parents can set their grad up for $8-12K and he’s “in business”.
One thing I try to hammer home to the young uns is that video is first and foremost a business, since after all, you’re using video to pay your rent, something they seem to overlook. Nowadays anyone who is Creative and Technical can make a great looking, effective video but the third leg of the stool is Business Acumen. When I got out of film school the only way to learn the biz was to be an apprentice in the true sense of the word, the Middle Ages sense of the word. I attached myself as a Man Friday to a highly successful DP and studio owner and he became my mentor and taught me the ropes. He taught me everything about running a film business including the two essentials: Getting Clients & Collecting Payment. These grads know nothing about how to run a business, even if it’s a business of one, such as myself.
In sum, these kids are just thrown into the frying pan of the real video world once they graduate, their professors didn’t teach them anything about the business aspect probably because they don’t know themselves. These kids were not forewarned that our biz is now intensely overcrowded, how the low cost of entry and ease of equipment use has made it extremely difficult to survive as a freelancer or find a staff gig because there’s an oversupply of newbies clamoring to be in it. If you do land a low paid staff job in your twenties there are ten people offering to do it for free. Those are the interns…
I would not want my 28 and 29 year old kids in this business now. They grew up on crews and worked quite a lot as my grips and PAs so if anyone might make it they could. Sure, they’d have fun in production, be able to brag at parties and on FB post their cool production stills. But survive? No way. At least not in the adult, middle class sense, past the ramen noodles phase which is where they are now in their late twenties. I’d probably have to dip into my savings to keep them afloat!
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
[Ned Miller] “Some of you guys really see the glass half full, huh?”
Meh. Some people see it half full, some people see it half empty, some people just see water in a glass and wonder, “In case of an extreme emergency, how long can I ration out the water in the glass?” My SO thinks I’m a pessimist because I don’t get excited when I get hired for a gig. I think I’m a realist because I’m not going to get excited until the checks clear.
Just because something is grueling or crappy or mostly likely to end in spectacular failure is no reason not to do it. The chance of success or failure should certainly be *a* consideration, but not *the* consideration. Do your research, make a 10yr plan w/short, medium and long term goals and then make a decision. “Because it’s there” (thank you George Mallory) is a totally valid reason, IMO, as long as you’ve done your due diligence.
I’ve had a lot of conversations in the past that we something like this:
Hey Andrew, I heard you are moving to Los Angeles.
Yup.
Do you know anyone there?
Not really. A family friend I’ve met a couple of times is letting me crash in the living room of his one bedroom apartment though.
Do you have a job lined up?
Nope.
Have you been there before?
Nope.
Do you have enough money saved up?
I hope so.
So… what made you decided to go there?
It’s the heart of the industry… and it’s the place I’m most likely to fail.
::blank stare::The likely hood of failure was one of the main reasons I moved to Los Angeles. I’ve always been a sucker for tragedies and underdogs though. And stories that push people to the breaking point. I always love recommending “Swimming with Sharks” to people who haven’t seen it yet and are curious about Hollywood. Though not necessary about Hollywood I think “Black Swan” is another good ‘how far will you go?’ tale though it is certainly less faustian than “Swimming with Sharks”. I dunno. Part of me feels like if you’ve never reached a point of questioning your morals, your intentions and what you are willing to sacrifice for the continued chance at success (not success mind you, but just the opportunity to possibly succeed) you aren’t pushing yourself hard enough.
To one of Tim’s points, the industry (and the way to make a living) is changing though right now were are in an ugly phase where the old is starting to fray but the new isn’t quite ready yet. For people that are finding success in new media check out companies like RockJump, Red Giant Films (not your father’s corporate videos), FilmRiot and Corridor Digital. Many of these guys started posting videos when they were teens, found an audience, and went “Holy crap, we might actually be able to turn this into a business.” Machinima (the genre, not the company) is also a relatively new entry into the medium. It’s a form of animation that uses video games as real time animation engines. Red vs. Blue (which uses the Halo games and started in 2003) is one of the pioneers of the genre.
I do agree Ned that at least a business 101 class should be a mandatory part of any film/video program. That’s certainly something I wish I would’ve taken when I was in school. You are going to have to learn it anyway so you might as well get it over with in college.
I think the industry is certainly expanding though, for better and for worse. Some of what used to work no longer works, some of what used to not work now works and some things that worked before still work now.
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I guess I should have titled the thread:
“What would you say if you gave a commencement address to film school grads WHO PLAN TO STAY IN CHICAGO?” LA, and to a lesser degree NYC, the odds of survival are greater. I counsel young folks, especially those that love the narrative format, to get out of Chicago asap before they fall in love, get car payments, sign a lease, put down an anchor. Then it’s too late. At that point one needs to make real money, steady money. The true beginning of adulthood.
As to business acumen, when I was coming up business courses, (just like proms, fraternities, etc.) weren’t cool and I wish I had taken some. But our biz is more about entrepreneurship since we are mainly independents, at least in my universe. Fortunately I am entrepreneurial through my genes: on my dad’s side no male had ever had “a job”, for as long as anyone knew they all had small service businesses. When I met my mentor who was 22 years older than me, he said something to me that I always tell the rookies: “Forget what you learned in school. We’re starting all over. Now here’s how you do it…”
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com -
Some see a glass half-empty, some say it’s half-full. An engineer says it’s twice as large as it needs to be. A marketer says someone must be thirsty and how can I make a buck off of that. My wife says “Put a goddamn coaster under that, you animal; I don’t need rings on the woodwork!”
Chicago is a great market to find video work in, as well as film production work. Though Oprah closed her HARPO studios there (gear auction underway this week), the Chicago Fire, Chicago PD and Empire tv shows are going full-tilt in production. Two large film production centers are constantly in competition to host productions. Illinois has seen a lot of movie production coming in over the past few years, big blockbusters like Transformers, Batman, Superman, all shot stuff here. Jupiter Rising shot here. It’s also a great source of fresh locations for mid-tier movies, rom-coms, etc. A huge talent pool in all areas makes it a great place for indies. The advertising biz remains strong in Chicago, so there’s commercials to shoot. It’s a major corporate and financial hub, there’s an infinite amount of corporate, medical research, industrial type productions to be made. One of the fastest internet nodes on the planet runs out of downtown Chicago.
You have to work hard for any and all of it; it doesn’t fall off the back of a truck and roll up your driveway.
But even stipulating to all of that, it’s the potential new markets and new ways of using the internet that we don’t yet imagine, that will really explode the business and create the next wave of video entrepreneurs.
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Allow me to draw a few conclusions and observations from this thread.
The difference between a seasoned pro and an inexpensive beginner can be the success or failure of a project. Granted that may not be an either/or situation. There are usually degrees of difference but any sane individual will lean heavily towards success and attempt to avoid the things that risk failure.
An example close to home: In March & April I was producing a 12 minute video which required five shooters for talking heads in five cities across North America. I was able to do one of the shoots myself, but for the whole project I was the writer, producer & editor.
The best of the four outsiders was, as I have praised him here, the COW’s Ned Miller. Given a terrible room in which to work he made the best of a situation none of us could control. He also was extremely aware of how the interview would be edited, meaning that he knew when to ask the subject to re-state or simply re-phrase his answers to the questions the client was asking over a speaker phone connection. Ned’s knowledge and attention to detail made my job easier.
Contrast this with one of the other cities where the person to be interviewed told us, “Oh you don’t need to hire someone, I know someone who does this.” The client thought this was a good idea since he could save money. Needless to say this was a newbie with a DSLR. He knew enough to double system with a separate recorder for the audio but not enough to provide a clap or any simple means of achieving synch for devices started who knows how far apart. (Thank God for Pluralize.) Add to that the framing was extremely against one side of the 16×9 frame. The interviewee repeatedly stumbled yet was never asked to re-state any part of his responses.
Conclusion: Ned is a pro well worth his fee. The kid with the DSLR may have been far less expensive but his product was inferior and consumed more editing time than it should have. Probably because he’d not spent much if any time around and learning from those more experienced than he is.
COST is not the only and most important concern, getting the best result is and we should always be reminding our clients of this. Quality rarely comes from the cheapest provider.
Now, back to the original subject of this thread. If I am advising someone who wants to start in video or any related field my best advice, that many others have stated before, is you can’t do simply one thing. Those days are over and have been for a while. (Although I fondly remember Mark’s reference above to the days when we were viewed as “techno-wizards” because we could operate machinery that mere mortals could not.)
The best way to succeed, and especially survive the down times, is to be in multiple businesses. If you’re an editor you better also be fairly good at colorizing and audio. Wouldn’t hurt if you also had experience shooting. Also would be a good idea these days to be working in broader, semi-related areas.
Although I have a strong preference for video production my company also creates print advertising and brochures, web pages, trade magazine articles and more. Usually when one area is dry the others are not. If we weren’t diversified we might have had a much harder time sticking around for this long. Acquire a LOT of skills, kids. You’re going to need them.
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Thanks Nick for the kudos! I’m blushing.
And Mark, I don’t know much about the Chicago union scene which all these TV series work within. Perhaps there’s lots of jobs but I have heard getting into the union isn’t so easy, and the Chicagoans get the scraps that the LA people don’t want. So perhaps there’s a lot of work in that area I am not familiar with since I hang out in the non-union, non-fiction TV show, corporate video and indie documentary scene, primarily in production. Our new governor is considering rolling back the movie company tax breaks so much of this may evaporate shortly.
BTW, I am vehemently anti-film biz union because when I first started and was working a lot as a film AC, they wouldn’t let me in. Only the sons and nephews were accepted. Females, minorities and the un-related were not allowed in. In fact, here in Chicago we have an expression: “We don’t want nobody that nobody sent.”
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com -
Well, they look pretty diverse to me
https://www.illinois.gov/dceo/whyillinois/Film/Media/Pages/EconomicData.aspx
It’s a nice overview of how the spin-off/trickle-down thing is supposed to work. In the cases of these folks, they make a basic living all year on smaller stuff, but when a big movie or TV show comes in, the income bump from the local spending makes their year, allowing them to invest in updated gear, or to pay down debt or expand, or just have a decent Christmas for the kids.
I can’t speak to your personal situation and history with them. But if you want to make some good money, maybe you would revisit the idea of membership? Maybe the guy that did you wrong is long gone, and it’s a new day with a new way? Be a shame if you didn’t join now, just to spite someone who might even be dead and gone and whom does the spite really affect in the end, except oneself? Take a gamble and reach out.
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