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What if there actually IS a new Mac Pro?
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[Andrew Richards] “My guess is in keeping with the sloppy launch of FCPX, that card was omitted from whatever plist tells the App Store what is and isn’t supported hardware.”
But the card worked. That’s my point. It meant a machine was viable for a little while longer even though, while not optimal, was certainly serviceable for those who wanted to try FCPX without making a hardware commitment. Apple is trying to steer one into a purchase, ultimately, even if that purchase is a good idea, it may be forced prematurely for the end user.
[Andrew Richards] “You can install FCP7 on a G5 if you modify the scripts in the install pkg.”
There are some developers who take a different course. They’ll say that feature “x” wont work with such hardware but the rest will function.
Sure it’s Apple’s choice in how to handle it but my point is that it’s Apple’s choice to lock out otherwise servicable hardware.
I believe that Apple will be much quicker to “pull that trigger” (set a higher threshold) as to what is or is not “a good user experience” and lock out system earlier than they’ve been doing with certain systems.
I also would not be surprised that the simple “replace my GPU with an unsupported GPU in my 2008 MacPro” option I took will be much harder to execute as time goes on with Apple’s hardware.
Once can certainly argue that the changes Apple made was a design improvement in recent iMacs and system drives as well as the changes in user access to batteries in laptops, and that may be true, but the end result may well be shorter usable lifespans or greater expense to upgrade the internals vs buying a new system.
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[Herb Sevush] “The only difference is they haven’t kept you waiting and guessing.”
That’s assuming you believe they will stay true to the roadmap. As I’ve pointed out (elsewhere) roadmaps are often not followed. (see Google WebM and Mozilla not supporting H.264 as a very recent example).
[Herb Sevush] “Precisely why I want the plan announced publicly; with a public deceleration they will be more likely to fulfill it, knowing the PR consequences. Nothing can protect you totally from getting screwed, but this public pressure does increase the likelihood of a better outcome. “
Precisely why some companies don’t want to reveal roadmaps.There’s nothing like a company facing damned if you do and damned if you don’t, once a roadmap is revealed, to decide they’re better off not revealing roadmaps.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “What recent roadmap led you to Windows/HP?”
For example this:
https://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
https://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=8&y=12&p1=3198When a new OS comes out, it doesn’t mean the old one is just gone. It’s not only still sold years later but also supported by the hardware.
So, wether I like Windows 8 or not once it hits the shelves… doesn’t matter. I can buy, install and run 7 just fine for years and it’s supported by hardware and software vendors alike, just like XP was.
Our Linux box runs Ubuntu server 10.04 LTS. Supported till April 2015, bot buts or ifs. Nobody’s going to wake up one morning and things have vaporized.
Once Apple realeases a new OS, that very day they stop selling the old one and new machines are preloaded with it. Wether your software or hardware is compatible or not – you find out after the fact.HP:
https://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2002/020507b.html
That’s just an example, doesn’t apply to me because I don’t depend on one specific vendor. I looked at the options and choose what suited my needs best. I could have equally chosen Boxx or Lenovo, or simply built my own machine. With Apple I do depend on whatever they produce. I can’t go elsewhere, I can’t build my own machine, I can’t install an older OS on a new system – all that’s left is Ebay.
But, of course, you can simply look at the HP’s ex-chief considering the sell-off of their pc market. The whole thing was public, it was an official anouncement that they were considering it, not just a rumor, that gave customer also the chance the voice their opinion.
When i registered my z800 with HP and asked about certain RAM combinations, I got a call to enquire about my statisfaction, suggestions. That NEVER happened to me once with Apple.With Apple, they know what’s best for me; soft- and hardware wise. And because they know that some of their children sometimes misbehave they force it down their throats because, unfortunately, they can and they always got away with it.
Just look at the current situation: this is the very first time I can recall that a group of long time, dedicated Apple users are seriously pissed off with them, some either considering or actively engaged in switching platforms. General unease about what’s to come – mainly because of arrogance on Apple’s side and silence. Are you saying there is nothing they could do to avoid this? I know, none of this really means much because we are too small a group to hurt but the same thing can happen rather quickly in the consumer space. All it takes is the next-big-ting going pear shaped on the market. And once that first scratch is in the shinny polish of impeccable Apple things can turn around rather quickly.
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[Frank Gothmann] “All it takes is the next-big-ting going pear shaped on the market. And once that first scratch is in the shinny polish of impeccable Apple things can turn around rather quickly.”
Well “Antennagate” didn’t seem to make much of a dent on iPhone sales
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
[Steve Connor] “Well “Antennagate” didn’t seem to make much of a dent on iPhone sales”
Right, because when Antennagate happened, they got scared and it forced them to actually open their mouths and comunicate with all bells and whistles.
So, it’s rather obvious. They can if they want to and if the heat is up. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from that. -
[Frank Gothmann] “So, it’s rather obvious. They can if they want to and if the heat is up. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from that.”
They also spoke after the circus that was the FCPX launch, they gave us a brief roadmap of where it was going.
Was there a roadmap for Intel processors that are the cause of all this speculation?
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
[Frank Gothmann] “For example this:
https://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
https://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=8&y=12&p1=3198“OK, did you actually sort these out or did you have Tim Wilson do this research for you?
So did you actively look for these before you purchased windows boxes?
The HP link is from 2002.
And as far as Apple firmwaring an older OS out of new computers, the Old OS still works, you just clone it to new machine, or keep running the old OS. I have computers that are still running 10.4. They didn’t vaporize.
When a new OS comes out, I update. I save an old version, but I doubt I will need to run a current OS for more than two maybe three years. It’s just the way I do things, I can see if you need to stay in one place. Mac allows this as well.
[Frank Gothmann] “With Apple I do depend on whatever they produce. “
And if the released FCP8, would you still say this? It seemed to be going fine until the FCP7 EOL bomb.
[Frank Gothmann] “With Apple I do depend on whatever they produce. I can’t go elsewhere, I can’t build my own machine, I can’t install an older OS on a new system “
I help a colleague setup a new Lion based MacPro a while ago.
I cloned the Snow Leopard drive to a hard drive, took that clone, stuck it in the new MacPro and powered it on. Done. I took a 5 year old hard drive, stuck it in a brand new machine and it worked, even though Apple wouldn’t allow a DVD based Snow Leopard install.
Could I take an Dell Inspiron based hard drive, stick it in a HPZ800 and boot? So what limitations are we really talking about here, and are you sure you aren’t bound by one vendor?
Can you clone a Dell hard drive to an HP?
I ask because I don’t know.
I can clone a MacPro drive and boot it on a mini if I need to. The system is pretty secure.
[Frank Gothmann] “Just look at the current situation: this is the very first time I can recall that a group of long time, dedicated Apple users are seriously pissed off with them, some either considering or actively engaged in switching platforms. “
Apple deserves some ribbing about the end of FCP7, the rest of the hardware side of the Apple veil of silence is business as usual and nothing new. If anyone is a long time Apple subscriber, then they’d be lying to say that Apple was any more or less open than they are now. I remember waiting really patiently for “G5 laptops”, and what happened? Intel.
[Frank Gothmann] “Are you saying there is nothing they could do to avoid this?”
If and when Apple has EOL’d hardware before, they have announced it. The MacPro is still for sale, and they haven’t EOL’d it. Could they say that they are making another one? Sure. Can they announce it a few months in advance? Absolutely. Will they, and have they ever? No. It doesn’t bother me as much for some reason as they haven’t said anything. It’s at that point when they say “it’s over” that I start looking around.
Jeremy
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[Craig Seeman] “That’s assuming you believe they will stay true to the roadmap. As I’ve pointed out (elsewhere) roadmaps are often not followed.”
I will take my chances with possibly unreliable information rather than no information. I like the illusion of some control, even in it’s absence. There’s nothing like the silent treatment to end a relationship.
With Apple it’s not just that they provide no roadmaps, they also are not interested in customer input. There’s no sensation of any communication in either direction.
Obviously there are plenty of people who have no problem with this type of situation, and I don’t expect Apple to change for me, but after the screwing last June I’m shopping around for someone who at least seems to be interested in my business. What this means is that if their are no new MacPro boxes out by May, I won’t be waiting around to see what they do in the summer.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “I will take my chances with possibly unreliable information rather than no information.”
There’s nothing wrong with that. We all have our preferences. My point is that different companies have different business models regarding roadmaps and each has advantages and disadvantages. I don’t claim that Apple’s policy is better. It’s just that I do understand why they’re doing it and its simply because they want to damage a customer base. Each method of handling roadmaps can end up harming someone’s business. Just personally speaking I’ve seen so many public roadmaps change direction that I take such announcement with a grain of . . . no more like a pound of salt (which hopefully doesn’t get rubbed into a wound).
[Herb Sevush] “but after the screwing last June”
Yes, after revealing a small piece (maybe not a sufficient piece) of the roadmap at NAB SuperMeet in April.
[Herb Sevush] “What this means is that if their are no new MacPro boxes out by May, I won’t be waiting around to see what they do in the summer.”
And if it comes to pass that Apple releases a “killer” box in the summer with no advance notice, some will be gone by then and some will not care and some may well second guess their decision assuming the box really is “killer” with an innovative design that would solve a lot of logistical issues for some. Obviously all hypothetical but the point is “you never know” roadmap or not, until the thing leaves the gate. That’s the hard reality in this tech business (IMHO).
My own view on all this is, at least, these aren’t the $100,000 per unit decisions they were in 2000 (such as Avid’s “roadmap” without Mac).
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[Jeremy Garchow] “OK, did you actually sort these out or did you have Tim Wilson do this research for you?
So did you actively look for these before you purchased windows boxes?
The HP link is from 2002.”I looked those up especially for you. No, I didn’t look for these before purchasing because I knew about MS OS policy. I also think it is no secret that Windows is a much more open and flexible OS compared to X.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Can you clone a Dell hard drive to an HP?
I ask because I don’t know. “You can. If we’re talking about entirely different architectures (Intel-AMD) you would want something like Acronis products (30 dollars) which will accomplish just that. Success may vary depending on your hardware setup, same is true for the Mac. If you have AJA drivers and shove the drive in a machine with a Matrox card it won’t work obviously. If you haven’t deactivated CS5 on the old machine it won’t run or allow you to activate on the new on etc. But you will boot to be able to sort out your drivers.
[Jeremy Garchow] “And if the released FCP8, would you still say this? It seemed to be going fine until the FCP7 EOL bomb.”
I would. I have been unhappy with Apple for quite a while, basically since the whole iPhone craze started. I have issues with quite a few things that they do and especially how they do it. It makes a huge difference if you are the small underdog that they were 15 years ago or a big, global player. You cannot act and behave in the same way.
I have been working with certain apps under windows for quite a while but it was FCPX that essentially gave me the final push to really evaluate in-depth how to migrate everything, which steps to take and when as to not cause too much financial havoc and chaos in my every day work. Ie. to not just have a smooth transition but to actually benefit from the transition with more options, easier workflows and saved money.
If you think this through to the end, what is the endgame scenario if Apple has its way. We get our music through Apple, our movies, our television, our books, magazines, newspapers, textbooks, software, hardware, peripherals as they see fit. Of course, it won’t happen that way, but this is essentially how they have set themselves up. All through one vendor who controls content, distribution, pricing, when and how it’s consumed.[Jeremy Garchow] “If and when Apple has EOL’d hardware before, they have announced it. The MacPro is still for sale, and they haven’t EOL’d it. Could they say that they are making another one? Sure. Can they announce it a few months in advance? Absolutely. Will they, and have they ever? No. It doesn’t bother me as much for some reason as they haven’t said anything. It’s at that point when they say “it’s over” that I start looking around.”
And where will you look? You can either make due with what they are offering or consider windows then. Some things just take time. As I have mentioned elsewhere, Prores is a big factor for many people and I also have to deliver a lot of Prores stuff myself plus have lots of Prores material archived. But internally, everything new that comes in and is archived isn’t Prores anymore. When I can I get a dongle for apps so I can move from platform to platform without issues. Hardware has to be cross platform if possible. Even if you are determined to stay on the Mac, thinking about such precautions make sense purely from a business perspective. I rather transition slowly so when it’s done things are in place and running smooth.
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