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What are the best Pro Video Cameras today under 12K
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[John Reynolds] “I know it can be done……my point was having to go that extra step on converting the original file that the camera makes before being able to edit in Premiere Pro…Sony Vegas etc.”
EX MP4 works in PP CS4
With plugin it’ll work in FCPI’d expect Sony’s Vegas will support Sony EX MP4 at some point soon if it doesn’t yet.
It sounds like you haven’t done any research at all. If you’re unsure of something ASK QUESTIONS rather than making uninformed claims.
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Interesting discussion, but somewhat circular in logic as main factor is price. The fact is that all the manufacturers dole out the feature set in portions which when you add all the stuff you want adds up to their top of the line product.
The main problem (as a long time film and video pro) I have with this class of prosumer products is that they are plastic fantastic, not built to last, nor should they be, because they are in fact built with planned obsolescence.
The cheapest camera that I consider worthy (although I do own, use and rent HVX200 successfully, meaning I’ve made money with it) is the Sony PDW F3330/335/350/355 for the reasons that the camera itself is robust, made to use and last in a professional arena (namely everyday broadcast use like at a local news station) and especially because of the XDCAM disc media, which I feel is worthy because of its fair/low price, robustness (we’ve all hear of the dishwasher stories) and archival (supposed to last 50 years). In addition the PDW-U1 reader at under $3000 replaces expensive VTR’s and the proxy video concept is really cool too.
Of course there are drawbacks, as there are to any compromised (by price) scenario; namely the dumbed down 1920 to 1440 horizontal rez, the long GOP recording, the 1/2″ imager vs a 2/3″ imager (but still the biggest in the class) and the temptation to use cheap SD glass instead of HD glass.
Just by way of disclosure, I do now sell cameras from a shop in SF in addition to my work as a cameraman and lighting director in LA, where we sell both Sony and JVC, but I try to be honest and realistic with my customers, most of whom are network level news shooters who use this class of camera as an adjunct to their bigger Varicams, HVX900s, Cine Altas and now PDW700’s, but more and more I’m being exposed to folks who want to spend 10-12K for a camera and obviously I’d like to accommodate them. I can tell you it’s a lot more work/effort/discussion selling to prosumers than to pros who more or less know what they want, but price is what drives the decisions on all levels; at least the pros subscribe to the logic that the more it costs the more it makes.
If you realistically have a plan to recoup your investment then you should buy the best camera you can (afford). I think we’ve arrived at a place where even though a particular camera or format may become obsolete, one can continue to make money for many years if you have a dedicated and loyal clientele and your productions are driven by quality and creativity. In the end, other than the rather nebulous concept of “broadcast quality” which still rules in some circles, most end users of your media will not care what camera you use, beyond the product being interesting, informative and entertaining.
However if you want to buy any Sony or JVC products feel free to contact me off list for some smokin’ prices (of course other than EX1/3 which Sony controls the discount and all dealers are forced to sell at the same price).
John at Sharaf dot Net
JS
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Good Answer!
But…You’ll get a biased answer? Not necessarly. But I’d like to hear from all no matter. Like you said Craig…I’ll get all answers and be able to figure out why. That’s all I need. Thanks for your input.
John
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[John Reynolds] “I use both PC and MAC and would like to be able to not have to go the extra step in transcoding for Premiere Pro on a PC.”
Actually, several months ago I plugged my EX1 into a buddy’s Windows machine with the last version of Premiere Pro CS3 (with the latest update installed) and he was able to drag the files directly into his bins without any transcoding at all and was able to edit the EX1 .mp4’s natively. Who knew. The fact that I had shot in HDV mode might have had something to do with it, but the fact that we were able to edit the files in Premiere Pro at all back then……..and instantly, was a surprise.
– Don
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PERFECT ANSWER TO MY QUESTION! Thank you so very much JOHN. I like to stay in contact with you as I am looking very soon to upgrading to higher end equipment. I’d like to see what you have to offer in equipment and cameras. The work is coming and I am currently working with partners and investors.
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Hummm…interesting. I wasn’t able to get Premiere Pro CS3 to read mine. I think what I remember doing was using the XDCAM EX ClipBrowser V2.0 to transocde the video for me. I haven’t done it in a while so I forgot what I did. I just wound up staying on a MAC.
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In my own near 30 year observation (working in this industry) I think since cameras began to compete against/replace BetaSP (and DigiBeta) such as XDCAM and then P2, camera life cycles seem to be getting shorter and workflows are in more flux.
I think this has resulted in some “nervousness” on the expenditure side of things so if one can get a $8-$12K kit that has a life span of 2 to 3 years they can keep going as they wait to see how things progress/shake out. There’s also greater demands/need for small mobile, possibly “throw away” cameras for shooting in some environs. It also means there’s a growing “B-camera” market that can come close to matching their more robust bigger siblings.
This is why the EX made some important break throughs despite necessary compromises.
Smallest 1/2″ chip camera (but CMOS)
Fast ingest for ENG work (although no archived disc recording)
Small size making it easier for travel and lower profile good for some challenging shoots.
Shooting modes such as overcrank and interval recording normally found in more expensive cameras.
Faster ROI given the potential shorter life cycle compared to bigger cameras.
Low investment when B- camera or volume camera purchase is needed. -
Don and Craig and John…..Thanks so much for your taking the time and giving me your input and wisdom on your experiences working with these cameras and what is going on today in the marketplace. Why these under 12K cameras are basically built to only last a short period of time. I want what I can’t afford at this point in time so I just wanted to get as much info as I could in making ANY decision as to what to do next. You gave some great answers. I thank you.
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[John Reynolds] “Why these under 12K cameras are basically built to only last a short period of time.”
There’s a bunch of reasons so I mention some and maybe John and Don can mention others as the thoughts pop up.
Some parts of the technology are changing very fast so it’s often easier for the manufacture to introduce some types of changes on this end of the price market. The manufacturer can introduce new features or complete changes more quickly.
For example: Sony introduced 1/2″ CMOS and SxS. They can advance or replace them quickly. It’s a bit tougher to do that on $50K cameras who are investing in a longer life cycle. Sony can advance CMOS or SxS up the product line if they so choose depending on the way the market and technology changes.
SxS might be supplemented or even replaced by SDHC in the future. If SDHC shows itself to be as inexpensive, reliable, archivable as XDCAM Disc it might move up in the camera line (I’m not saying any of this will happen but showing what part of the market a manufacture can take risks in).
CMOS vs CCD may take a different direction though. CMOS has lower power and heat but there’s rolling shutter. On the other hand RED (and now other cameras) use CMOS. Sony can see what plays now in the market and see what technological implementations they can make quickly if need be.
There’s MP4 (which can be used as is, wrapped to MOV or MXF). They couldn’t have tried that with people who have 6 and 7 figure amounts invested in MXF workflows.
Basically this end of the market, for Sony at least, is a sort of “proving ground” given them room to develop or change directions.
Think of the number of people who bought HDV 3 years ago now willing to move to XDCAM EX. Would that happen with people who bought F350s? Look at how worked up some 700 owners are over the appearance of the 800.
It’s much easier to get a ROI on $8-$12K in two or three years and move to something new. That “new” can be the next technological advancement in that price market or on to a more expensive investment if your business grows. As you spend more money on Camera (and ENTIRE workflow) you need more time for that ROI and manufactures need to be sure new products (features, etc) can endure for longer periods.
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[Don Greening] “Actually, several months ago I plugged my EX1 into a buddy’s Windows machine with the last version of Premiere Pro CS3 (with the latest update installed) and he was able to drag the files directly into his bins without any transcoding at all and was able to edit the EX1 .mp4’s natively”
I went to a friend PC to recover the .mp4 from my dead SDHD cards, and amazingly the .mp4 played in his Window media Player.
rafael
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