Visual comparison between the 7D, 5D, RED ONE

[Noah Kadner]

And now the T2i which is around $700. Good times for shallow DOF freaks.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.

[Ryan Orr]

Exactly Joel. My point exactly in my original reply. Buy, rent, borrow, steal (jking!) what you can, and use it! All cameras are comes down to one simple fact. They are all tools, in which you use to tell a story. If you have the taste for a camera that’s worth more then a new car, let alone all the accessories that’s worth a few more thousands of dollars…THEN getting a post workflow that can handle 4k/2k nicely…then by all means get yourself a Red One.

But at the same time, I’ve seen lovely 5D and 7D work that whisked my breath away.

[Neil Abeynayake]

I was trying to emphasize objectively, what the 7D can do when compared to more expensive cameras. This is not the forum to explain what RED One can and cannot do. They have their own forum for that.

Can Canon DSLRs overcome overheating, data throughput bottlenecks (and other irritants that Uli had mentioned?) Absolutely. Canon did listen to their users and in less than three months after the release of the camera, came with a major firmware update. If you have not updated your 7D yet to firmware update ver. 1.1.0, it is available at the Canon (USA) website. Once you get the update, you will notice there are less aliasing artifacts, camera runs a bit cooler, faster scanning of the image sensor which relates to rolling shutter anomalies etc.

What Canon had done is to give everyone (@ sub US$5000.00 range – i.e. 7D, L series prime and 70 ~ 200 f2.8 L) an opportunity to access a region that was once the playground of a selected few. If someone think that they can buy this camera, press a few buttons and create a masterpiece with it, that person would be disappointed. 7D comes with a bunch of features that the user can customize and/or programmed. In the hands of a proficient user and with professional lenses attached, this camera can challenge (in certain areas) some of the mainstream digital movie cameras. Also, with optional (affordable) attachments an array of 7Ds can get motion captures for VFx at a fraction of the current (MoCap) rates.

One example is Canon’s WFT-E5A Wireless File Transmitter:

(Quote)

With WFT the EOS 7D Digital SLR camera offers professional photographers a wide range of digital connectivity options including IEEE802.11a/b/g and Ethernet, ideal for commercial and studio work. The WFT-E5A opens the door to new possibilities in remote and Geotagged shooting applications. Photographers can fire up to 10 cameras simultaneously from across the room or across the country while maintaining control over camera settings and remote live view on a laptop or smart phone.

The WFT-E5A wireless transmitter can also transfer and display images on DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance) compatible televisions and photo frames. Geotagging is now possible via Bluetooth, using compatible GPS devices to append coordinate data to the images.

(End Quote)

Try doing this with a bunch of ARRI, RED, Viper, Dalsa or SONY F35 at a comparable price point.

Over its life cycle Canon will sell (perhaps) 200 million+ of 7Ds and a bunch of lenses. Do the math. I’d rather sell 200+ mil. of US$1300.00 (Canon’s probable FOB rate) than maybe 5000 cameras @ US$ 17,500.00.

And Canon’s global reach is huge. Their annual R&D budget on imaging products alone eclipses both RED One Camera Company and its owner’s (Janard) net worth. They sell very high quality products. It may not be that difficult for Canon to change form factors, add a couple more to their existing DIGIC-4 chips, add decent cooling and create a workflow for their end-user. At that point, if they want to take on the RED One, they would win hands down. I think what needs be looked at is how you can tell your story aesthetically using this tool.

“Always remember that you’re unique. Just like everyone else”.

Confucius

[Noah Kadner]

[Neil Abeynayake] “Over its life cycle Canon will sell (perhaps) 200 million+ of 7Ds and a bunch of lenses. Do the math. I’d rather sell 200+ mil. of US$1300.00 (Canon’s probable FOB rate) than maybe 5000 cameras @ US$ 17,500.00.”

While I totally agree Canon will sell many multiples of RED’s numbers over time- I don’t think 200 million is even a remotely realistic number. I’d be surprised if any SLR or Prosumer camera ever made has sold more than a couple of million units. Most I’m sure are very far under even that.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.

[Joel Mielle]

Your film looks great!
I’m about to start my first feature soon with a 7D. Any advice you can give me? The audio is probably my major concern as it’s quite dialogue intensive. The last thing I want to do is ADR. Any suggestions to get the best audio possible? I hate the thought of recording audio separately, but I may have no better option. I’d like to know if the Juicedlink DN101 is good enough, it seems to trick the auto gain somehow. Or should I go the Zoom H4N option. I also know that magic lantern are reworking the software for the 7D, but how good will the signal to noise ratio be. I’ve seen a few tests on YouTube but it’s difficult to really tell.

[Noah Kadner]

[Joel Mielle] ”
Your film looks great!
I’m about to start my first feature soon with a 7D. Any advice you can give me?”

For audio- you must go double-system that’s not even a question. The onboard audio of the 7D is pretty much worthless beyond a guide track- low internal circuitry quality, automatic gain control- you name it- barely an afterthough in terms of quality.

If you want pro sound go with something like the zoom with a nice shotgun mic on a boom and lavs when you have to. I’ve got a new DVD here that gives a lot of simple but effective tips on greatly improving audio.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.

[Robbie Carman]

[Neil Abeynayake] “One example is Canon’s WFT-E5A Wireless File Transmitter: “

Have you tested the E5A with video? My understanding ( I don’t own one) is that it is limited to still capture transfer only

Robbie Carman
—————-
Colorist and Author
Check out my new Books:
Video Made on a Mac
Apple Pro Training Series DVDSP
From Still To Motion

[Neil Abeynayake]

[Robbie Carman] “Have you tested the E5A with video? My understanding ( I don’t own one) is that it is limited to still capture transfer only”

We are working with a client who is a VFx house. One of their requirements is a MoCap rig for a movie that is in budget planning stages. Effects guys are using Assimilate Scratch, Autodesk Inferno, Maya and LightWave. The minimum frame resolution requested by the effect supervisor/s is at 4K. However for keying and other critical effects they are exploring larger resolutions if possible.

One of the ideas that got tossed around was to rig 48 (yes, forty eight) 7D units in a “certain way”, (each camera with its own wireless file transfer unit attached); triggered by a sensor. This seems to be the least expensive method to acquire imagery in real-time for this project.

We are writing custom apps to ingest MoCap @ 6K (image + telemetry and other data) in real-time. The end result will be screened at IMAX 3-D.

[Noah Kadner] “I don’t think 200 million is even a remotely realistic number. I’d be surprised if any SLR or Prosumer camera ever made has sold more than a couple of million units. Most I’m sure are very far under even that”.

If you are referring to the West coast market of the US, maybe you are correct. However, there are a few billion folks are living in other countries in Asia who are NOT affected by OUR economic downfall. If you take India which is the leading movie producer in the world, over 150 million of its 1.2 billion people are associated in the movie industry, one form or the other. China has a healthy population of over 1.6 billion consumers. And world over has over 6 billion people. Yes, not everyone can afford or may not even need toys we buy. But many can and will purchase if they see a value and a need. US is no longer the purchasing leader of the world. Many countries did not totally depend on the US to sell their products and services. I think the figures given earlier are still reachable. Please understand I am NOT a Canon fan boy. I work with clients who are on RED, Viper and F23 ~ 35 based work-flows. However, I see the potential of 5D, 7D other DSLRs and their contributions to complement existing pipelines.

“Always remember that you’re unique. Just like everyone else”.

Confucius

[Noah Kadner]

Yeah but have you really truly researched actual sales numbers? Just because a country has 6 billion people doesn’t mean they all care about shooting video on HDSLR cameras…

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!
Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II and Canon 7D.
Watch Formosa- My indie movie shot with the SDX900 and finished with Final Cut Studio.

[Lance Bachelder]

Agree with Noah – gotta go with separate sound and sync it later – pain – doing it now on our 7D feature. We hired a pro sound crew with the best sound gear available – sound is so important, especially on indie films where you’re gonna get scrutinized for every decision you make. We did buy a Zoom H4n for some run and gun stuff and in-the-car audio and it is an amazing tool for the money – really pristine.

Don’t forget to use a slate on EVERY take!

Lance Bachelder
Southern California