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USB vs Firewire
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[David Roth Weiss] “You’ve extropolated well beyond the realm of firewire drives Walter. Hard drives arrays, especially Raid-5 and 6 configurations are another matter completely. But a drive in a firewire enclosure is hardly rocket science. “
Nope. I still chat with LaCie about our Firewire drives and of course we run G-RAID (older model) drives and now we’re trying out some new Firewire products from Maxx. I’m talking about 2 to 4 bay RAID 0 units.
I know exactly what I’m talking about in this discussion David.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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I would just like to point out that there is no such thing as a LaCie drive. There are LaCie cases, but they do not manufacture drives.
I still remember the case that came up on this forum a few years ago where someone purchased a LaCie box that was sold as a 7200rpm drive, had issues with it, opened the case (against warranty instructions) and discovered it actually contained a 5400rpm drive.
I think there are now only Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital, Samsung, and Fujitsu. Maxtor was bought by and is a brand of Seagate. LaCie never made drives.
The advantage of making your own is that you know exactly what you’re putting in the box. You buy a LaCie and you’re buying whatever was the best price drive at the time of manufacture. LaCie is I believe still the largest seller of FireWire drive units, and probably because of that also has the highest failure rate.
Until James Wiebe retired I would only get his drives for portables. He made the best chips, his own design, and tested every drive that went into one of his boxes. Now, I only go with Seagates usually in the OWC box for bus-powered, or the Seagate boxes for powered FW drives. No guarantees, but but at least you still get a better warranty with them.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP6,” “Basic Training for FCS2” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
[Tom Wolsky] “I think there are now only Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital, Samsung, and Fujitsu. Maxtor was bought by and is a brand of Seagate. LaCie never made drives. “
This is absolutely correct. LaCie, CalDigit, Dulce, Apple, MaxxDigital, Facilis and others do not make their own drives. They configure the units using drives from the manufacturers you list.
In the case of Maxx, they are using Hitachi’s primarily.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[Tom Wolsky] “The advantage of making your own is that you know exactly what you’re putting in the box. You buy a LaCie and you’re buying whatever was the best price drive at the time of manufacture. LaCie is I believe still the largest seller of FireWire drive units, and probably because of that also has the highest failure rate.”
Yes, exactly my point Tom. You save lots of money, you can swap out the drives when you feel like it, and the warranty is 300 to 500 percent longer. All pretty compelling reasons to roll your own firewire drives in my opinion.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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[walter biscardi] “I know exactly what I’m talking about in this discussion David.”
No, because you aren’t responding to the discussion Walter. Your answer is a complete non-sequitur. A common tactic for you.
You’ve managed to take a discussion started by a fellow who doesn’t even know the difference between USB and Firewire, and you’ve somehow made it about VARs building expensive Raid arrays, because it suited your otherwise weak argument. In doing so, you completely avoided of the warranty issue that I identified, in which I pointed out that companies like Lacie, instead of providing a better warranty, instead routinely cut the warranty on the drive by 300 to 500 percent.
Non-sequiturs do not win arguments and do not belong in discussions, as they are antithetical to discussion.
Have a great weekend…
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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I’ll cast my vote for making your own drives. Well…FIREWIRE setups. You can’t actually make your own drives. Doing it yourself is cheap and can be very reliable. I have three drives I assembled myself and they work great.
And I also built my own external ESATA raid. But that is a bit more complex…
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[David Roth Weiss] “You’ve managed to take a discussion started by a fellow who doesn’t even know the difference between USB and Firewire, and you’ve somehow made it about VARs building expensive Raid arrays, because it suited your otherwise weak argument.”
I never mentioned expensive RAID arrays. Here’s my original comment.
Personally I never recommend this. I always go with pre-configured drive from manufacturers except for the archive units. I prefer to have one manufacturer to call in the event that something goes wrong.
I said I go with pre-configured drives from manufacturers. Just like the MaxxDigital 2 bay box I just picked up. 2 bay chassis and 5 1TB drives that are pre-mounted on sleds to be used in the unit. Great little box for archiving.
[David Roth Weiss] “In doing so, you completely avoided of the warranty issue that I identified, in which I pointed out that companies like Lacie, instead of providing a better warranty, instead routinely cut the warranty on the drive by 300 to 500 percent. “
That’s a case of buyer beware. No avoiding any issue. You need to look at the warranties on the product before you purchase. Medéa was the best at this when they were still around, now you have to look at each product and manufacturer to see how the warranties are set up AND who you have to deal with to get the warranty service handled.
[David Roth Weiss] “Non-sequiturs do not win arguments and do not belong in discussions, as they are antithetical to discussion.
Have a great weekend… “
Glad to know you feel that way David, that clears up a lot for me, especially since I’m not trying to “win an argument.” You have a great weekend too.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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I have to say you guys are most fortunate. I’m in the ‘I cried because I had no shoes till I saw…’
I’m the guy with no feet.
Here in Mumbai India. LaCie sells drives by the hundreds if not thousands to gullible editors who think their stuff is safe. I have two Lacie RAIDs (among many others, mostly failed) bought about 2 years ago. Both had their Firewire 800 ports fail while STILL UNDER WARRANTY.
I mailed LaCie by filling out the form at their web site as well as mail to the support address. I even called the dealer but he said he couldn’t do anything as LaCie DON’T EVEN RESPOND TO DEALERS IN INDIA.
Sorry to shout but that’s how it is with some drive manufacturers. In some parts of the world. Especially when they feel they can get away with it. Personally I’ve given up on LaCie, only use them when clients bring them.
On the other hand I also have a few noname enclosures that haven’t ever failed. And some that have, and the dealer has replaced them without contest.
So much for branded drives in some parts of the world.
Lucky you guys.
By the way, the said LaCie’s with FW800s bust are working just fine over USB. They even play long sequences and capture faithfully over USB (DVPAL, DV50) – which is the original topic.
Take care (of your LaCie)
Neil
FCP Editor, Mumbai, India.
Completely PAL. -
I too say W O W !!! (you have been caught in the numbers “make-up” that specs per se guarantee: NON SENSE!) I respectfully suggest you first understand how these things work. USB is meant to be used to handle simple tasks, like connecting mice to PC’s, keyboards and the like. But reading specs like those you saw guarantees a complete deception! USB is a Host-Client architecture, while Firewire is a “Peer-to-Peer” connection… meaning that FW is capable of MAINTAINING a given data transfer rate, unlike USB, which uses memory and recourses of the host, administering the transferring of the data in short bursts, not continuously. The true reason USB is being pushed by almost all manufacturers, is simply because it has caught with popular customers (not necessarily understanding ones), and it is CHEAP. It costs just pennies to add a USB port to a device, but adding FW is going to cost almost a dollar (at the very large number of produced units), and you know what that means. That is the explanation. Remember: for video and truly high quality audio, FW is way above ANY USB (even 3.0). It is a matter of Architecture, not transfer rate, and more importantly: USB published data refers to MAXIMUM INSTANTANEOUS rates, not SUSTAINED ones. If anybody tell you otherwise, send him to study a little about both standards. no doubt about that.
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