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Understanding FCPX under the hood.
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First off–we’re arguing at cross purposes, and this is not where the discussion was going. We were simply talking about the myth–which I agree is a myth–that PCs are way cheeper than Macs. So, why we’re here-I’m not sure.
Now, as to tablets–I don’t think we disagree particularly, but since we seem to be on the subject, let me tell you what I think about them:
Yes, they are on the rise, but in their current form I do not believe the will replace laptops. I Do believe that laptops will eventually replace most home computers. In their current form I think tablets are over-hyped. They are new and exciting, and yes, for some people they are their only computer (and for some people, their phone is their only computer), but MOST tablet owners also own some other form of computer.
Having used tablets for some time now, I do not find that they–in their current form–adequately replace a laptop for personal use. Interestingly, my 14 year old daughter does not either, nor do any of her friends. They love their iPads for casual browsing and media consumption, and a couple of them enjoy some of the finger-driven artistic tools, but given the choice–one or the other–all of them would take the 13″ Macbook Pro that their school distributes over their personal iPads. Interestingly, none of them give two figs about the Retina display either. I find among my many friends who have been dual users for some time pretty much exactly the same sentiment. Yes, there is a whole segment of the population that will never get past browsing and media consumption, and yes, there are people who use their tablets professionally (I have several apps, from control surfaces to dictation-takers, that I use regularly), but among the population I have been watching for the last several years, the tablet remains an add-on.
But what’s a tablet? What’s a laptop? They are so close, now, in terms of functionality that it seems foolish to draw major distinctions between them. There are some actions that work better with a touch screen, and some actions that work better with a keyboard and trackpad. Some things are better with a more powerful CPU and some things are better with a much longer battery life. It really comes down to no more than that at this point. And that is the gap that everyone is trying to bridge. But really its a very tiny gab.
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[Bernard Newnham] “Jason, further up, says-
“I’ve lost days before when using PC based systems – even with full tech support, I’ve had whole mornings where clever people have been ‘under the hood’ (this on HP 800 workstations so not cheap stuff) ”One does have to wonder what year that was – sometime in the nineties? And what software he was using. I remember all that stuff too, but I was a lot younger then.”
Yes, I’ve never had that kind of an experience with a PC. I used to have that kind of fun with a Matrox Digisuite / Dual Pentium setup, but never ever considered it to be an issue with the PC. NT 4.5–Windows XP was a marvelous, generally rock solid experience for me on PCs. I did have Vista, which had all the incompatible driver fun, but not on a work PC. I guess I could see having the issues Jason is referring to when upgrading from XP to Vista. I hear, though, that Windows 7 was rock solid again.
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Garage Band for example, is a blast on the iPad as you can actually play instruments and interact, and on the computer you need a midi keyboard or a real guitar.
I can see motion graphics and editing benefitting in similar ways
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[Bret Williams] “Garage Band for example, is a blast on the iPad as you can actually play instruments and interact, and on the computer you need a midi keyboard or a real guitar.
I can see motion graphics and editing benefitting in similar ways
“Actually you don’t need a midi keyboard, and I tend to prefer using a virtual computer keyboard when I have to, as opposed to the iPad screen, though a virtual keyboard probably takes a little more practice. For those of us who Do have a keyboard, I don’t really think there is much of a comparison.
Musical things I Do use the iPad for: Omnisphere has a sweet little iPad utility that acts as a powerful but oddball controller. AC-7 is a fun little virtual control surface/mixer that works well with FCP 6/7 and Logic. I like the controls on Touch OSC, and when I have some free time, I’m going to see if I can’t get them working with Media Composer and Audition. I’m also very interested in trying out V-Control Pro with Media Composer when I get the chance. Also, if I were into Ableton, I think it would be a bitchin’ trigger device.
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[Bernard Newnham] “Jason, further up, says-
“I’ve lost days before when using PC based systems – even with full tech support, I’ve had whole mornings where clever people have been ‘under the hood’ (this on HP 800 workstations so not cheap stuff) ”One does have to wonder what year that was – sometime in the nineties? And what software he was using. I remember all that stuff too, but I was a lot younger then.”
No Bernie – last year, hence the HP 800. Running Avid…
Overall I’m pretty platform agnostic, I’ll cut on whatever someone pays me to cut on. All I can go on is my experience, having owned both PC and Mac based systems. I had nightmares with some of the early Avids – especially the ones running on ‘custom’ hardware (what was the one with the rack-mounted CPU with big clamshell doors they sold in the 90s? I shudder to remember that POS…) yet my Fast Silver was rock solid running on a beefy PC. I think it has a lot to do with how carefully any PC is put together – and money does play a part here. Too many people cut corners and pay the price in terms of downtime and incompatibilities. I don’t want to have to troubleshoot that kind of thing – I can if I have to, but I’d rather be cutting. I have been fortunate in the reliability stakes with my own kit, probably because I can’t afford to have it crap out on me so I take good care of it.
Looking overall at the computers I’ve used and owned both at work and domestically, I’d say Apple have both the best reliability and longevity – heck my Blue & White G3 still worked when i junked it (couldn’t even find someone to give it to) and we’ve still got a pair of eMacs that work fine. Must’ve been through at least 3 desktop PCs and a couple of windows based laptops in that time. But as always YYMV…
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Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you’ll be a mile away. And have his shoes. -
” I think it has a lot to do with how carefully any PC is put together”
True of any gear I suppose, but it is difficult to get building a PC wrong. Put the processor in the slot provided, add the heatsink. Slot in the memory. Screw the motherboard to the standoffs provided. Plug in the graphics card. Connect the cables to the drives and power supply etc. That’s about it. There are endless how-tos on the net, eg – https://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Computer
It either works straight away, or not,really. Mostly it does, because PCs are designed to be built by not-too-bright people who aren’t concentrating, rather than someone who’s about to use the thing to make money – and get on the air.
I still have my G4 here. It seems too pretty to chuck away, but I have no use for it…..actually, perhaps I could build a PC inside. Should fit ok.
Bernie
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[Herb Sevush] “I suggest you go here. Their builds are updated every 6 months or so. Generally New Egg has the best prices for the parts. “
Thank you, Herb. That is helpful.
DIY10 sounds like it will answer the hackintosh questions. Looking forward to that build.
Too bad it will be a “lowly” i7 that constantly gets berated around here for not being quite pro enough.
And it will have the absolutely shameful thunderbolt that isn’t going to add any flexibility or capability at all to anything in the pro video space. Oh, the humanity.
But I guess what’s good for the goose isn’t good enough for the gander?
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[Bernard Newnham] “What shall I use?
Stuff that people can work and fits the budget.”Well, if $500 – $700 breaks the budget, then yes, I can see the value.
For me, it would be quite an experiment and if it didn’t work, I’d have to spend the money again on a system that was prebuilt and warrantied. I know talk about “good economics” around here, but for us, there is a peace of mind that might not show up as a line item on a budget, but it does carry value for us.
If you have a team or person that’s dedicated to trouble shooting any issues and you can afford to take the machine completely offline without any sort of replacement, then I’d say it would probably be worth it to you.
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[Chris Harlan] “Actually, while conflicts can occur, they are rare and getting rarer. “
I would imagine that “the world’ determines what motherboards are working or not.
Here’s a comment from a newegg user that I came across trying to piece together and wade through the absolutely confusing amount of choices in motherboards. I don’t know what the hell I’m doing, but I would assume I am not alone in that department.
Case, motherboard, power supply, processor, ram, GPU, cooling, peripherals. How hard can it be? 😉
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188119
“Pros: I own a small Visual Effects company specializing in 3D productions. Having the absolute fastest workstation(s) for this kind of work is something we have spent a lot of money on testing. We have tested the SR-X, the Asus Z9PE-D8 (another dual socket 2011), the SR-2 of course, and even the AMD 4 Socket boards (16 cores per CPU, 64 cores total). I can officially say that the SR-X is the best, BUT, that comes with a disclaimer! Be sure to read “Cons” and “Other thoughts” for everything you probably want to know before buying.
Big Q: Is it worth spending twice the budget to buy an SR-X with dual E5 CPU’s? Or is it better to spend half the budget for an overclocked/watercooled SR-2? Well… Don’t rule out the SR-2 just yet! If you read my other comments you’ll see why you still might want to go the SR-2 route, depending on your specific needs.
Best things to say about the SR-X:
Great Windows 7 Performance
Higher RAM capacity
Noticeable GPU performance increase (Quadro’s)
Other stCons: Read Other Thoughts for more details:
Cons: Not a dramatic difference in CPU/GPU performance for 3D workstation use. An overclocked and watercooled SR-2 will cost you half the price and operate at nearly the same speed as the SR-X when rendering 3D. You’ll see a bigger margin of performance in other CPU computing areas, but not really where you need it the most.
Passmark and other benchmark websites will show a 30-40% performance improvements, but again, pay close attention to WHERE those calculation improvments are. They’re not everywhere.
Why 4 stars and not 5? Because the SR-X we got direct from EVGA seems to not have all of it quirks worked out yet. It works well, but only for about 3 to 4 days straight before we starting getting errors that eventually lead to crashing – HDD/SDD related. Could be unrelated to the Mobo, but doubtful.
Worst things about SR-X:
No overclocking, but that’s Intel’s fault for locking CPU’s.
Still only 2 SATA3 RAID Ports, seriously EVGA?Other Thoughts: We tested both the E5-2690 cpus and the E5-2687w cpus, the 2687w’s are faster, but only by a 2% margin. We first tested the Asus Z9PE-D8 and were very impressed with overall performance, especially in Windows 7, but 2 things were lacking… (1) even with PCI-E gen3 the graphics cards seemed to run slower than on the SR-2. (2) 3D rendering was only 8% faster AT BEST over the SR-2. Other CPU benchmarks were much higher, but 3D rendering was barely noticeable over the Intel 5680 CPUs in the SR-2.
Next we tested the SR-X (direct from EVGA). As expected it operated about the same as the Asus Z9PE-D8, BUT where we saw a dramatic difference was the GPU performance! Our Quadro 5000’s we put in the SR-X were operating at nearly 1.5 times the speed of both the SR-2 and the Z9PE-D8. Again though, 3D render times were only 8% over the SR-2 with 5680’s (tested with the E5-2687w CPUs).
Recommendation: The SR-2 is STILL the best for the buck. If you need the extra 5-10% for 3D rendering, go SR-“
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[Jeremy Garchow] “And it will have the absolutely shameful thunderbolt that isn’t going to add any flexibility or capability at all to anything in the pro video space. Oh, the humanity.”
Yes it will have Thunderbolt, IN ADDITION to numerous PCIe slots.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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