Training Editors

[Charley King]

[Chaz Shukat] “Now after 25 plus years I am first beginning to “study” editing technique. I hope that doesn’t ruin my style.”

Hopefully, you will learn that you are already doing it right. But then what is right? Who sets the rule what is right? If it works but doesn’t follow a particular rule, is it not right?

I also hope you don’t ruin your style by learning how someone else does it. The thing that makes us what we are as editors is our uniqueness, our individual style. Little tricks that fit in with your style are good. Copying someone elses actual style is not.

Charlie

ProductionKing Video Services
Unmarked Door Productions
Flamingo Las Vegas Hotel
Las Vegas, Nevada

[Jeff Raskin]

Interesting thread, and I always join the party late.

Nina, I agree that formal edit training is rare. I learned a lot about editing when, like Mark S., I stared at those open reels going round and round in my first job in the biz, in radio. A grease pencil, splice block and splicing tape should make all of us thankful for the advantages we have with the current technology, but those advantages only make our job a little easier to do. How well an edit works and why is the issue (agreeing completely with Tim K.), not what NLE software, platform, tape format or whatever are employed, and the answer to that question is not absolute. That is why many of us, hell, all of us that take this forum seriously consider what we do an ART.

After well over 30 years editing, I trust myself to know when something works, even if I arrive at that point:
A) Completely by accident (happens more often than I like to admit)
B) Through client intervention (see parenthetical comment to A))
C) With the skillful manipulation of all the elements I have at my disposal

I learn something every day that informs me as an editor. Most days, it is easy for me to remember that I love this business.

[Charley King]

[Jeff Raskin] “A) Completely by accident (happens more often than I like to admit)”

One of the reasons I always say, “I’d rather be lucky than good any day.”

Charlie

ProductionKing Video Services
Unmarked Door Productions
Flamingo Las Vegas Hotel
Las Vegas, Nevada

[Chris Bové]

[Nina Staum] “2 questions for everyone:
1. What training did you receive when you first started editing?
2. How did you learn to make a good cut?”

1.) None. They only taught 2 things back then – dirtecting and writing.
2.) Picked a bunch of my favorite movies and watched them with the sound off. Audio is the glue that links visual ideas together in the human mind, and turning off that link made it easier for me to pay attention to visual cues instead of getting caught-up in the dialogue.

‘s funny… with the sound off, Nat Born Killers is actually a pretty bad movie. Another interesting result – with the audio off, the 1977 Star Wars still tells the story it needs to, however all three of the new ones really, REALLY fall short. Conclusion: effects ain’t nothing without top-notch sound design.

______
/-o-o-\
\`(=)`/…Pixel Monkey
`(___)

[Shane Ross]

I have to add my story to this thread…

I started out getting a film degree at Montana State University, in Bozeman. Yes, there is a film school there…turns out mainly crew, but a few pwople (John Dahl) made it big creatively. I studied to be a cinematographer, but also worked on lots of documentaries. My final project was a documentary that I edited on the brand new Avid the school got.

Then I moved to Phoenix to be with my wife, who was attending ASU. Production jobs down there are tight…and only every so often did I get work as a set Production Assistant. I had to have a main job, which started out managing a video store, but then I ended up at Apple doing phone tech support (this part is VERY relevant). I realized that I wasn’t going to get work as a camera operator without a reel…and I didn’t make one while I was at school and had access to equipment (they didn’t tell us about reels…dorks!). So I called the company that hired me as a PA and asked if I could use their Avid for a day in exchange for 2 PA days. The producer asked “Oh, you know the Avid?” There was a film crew in town that was looking for local hires (cheaper than flying a bunch of people from LA) and they needed an apprentice editor who knew the Avid, and had contacted them (they were also the office managing the Arizona Crew list) looking for people. So I went and interviewed. The Assoc. Producer said that I had the same qualifications as the previous 4 people who came in…what could I offer that they could not. And I swear, as if on cue the director’s assistant comes in with her Powerbook 5300 complaining…saying that it needed to be sent in for repair for she couldn’t have the 4 applications she needed open at once, and it kept crashing. “Mind if I look at that?” I ask. Soon I have it purring (virtual memory…heee) and I have the job. I am the Apprentice Editor for Oliver Stone’s U-TURN (uncredited…dang it).

That “grandfathered” me into the Union, but didn’t land me more film work. The editor who liked me (there were three) moved to Seattle, so when I followed the production to LA, and it ended, I had to find something. A college friend recommended me to work at a company as their Tape Librarian…as they had none and were in need. So I was hired and designed a vault database for them. I took an Avid course that didn’t teach me anything I didn’t know, but I met an editor making the transition from D-Vision and we hit it off (also another important plot point) Then I moved back to Arizona for a year. I moved to LA while my wife was STILL IN SCHOOL in Arizona, so I went back for her last year and did corporate video during that time (office managed, camera operated, edited). Then BACK to LA where I was recommended to take over the vault at AMERICA’S FUNNIEST HOME VIDEOS due to my reputation for creating databases…and theirs was in need. So I spent the following 9 months there. During that time I was looking for assist editing work without success.

Then another college buddy (got to love your friends) recommended me for a Post Coordinator position at a company that did History Channel shows. I also served as Assistant Editor in the evenings, and eventually was taught how to online on an Avid and on a Grass Valley system. After a year I got an offer I couldn’t refuse and left to assist on a TV pilot. It failed, but I met more people, and another assistant recommended me to assist on JUDGE JUDY. Worked there for 6 months…hated every stinking day. Then the editor I took the Avid class with offered me a job on a Disney Channel show and I leapt. While working as an assistant on that, I was encouraged to sit and watch as he and the other editor worked. And I also did all the TEMP music and sound effects editing for them…a task most assistants are saddled with, but is good practice for editing. Not only do we get to see how they cut scenes, but we get to add to them.

And on the SECOND SHOW, the guy said “Here, you take scene 6.”
“What?”
“Scene 6,” he replied. “I want you to edit it. Then I will give you notes, you address my notes and I will cut it into the show.”

Oooookaaay. Well, I was off. I cut at least one scene from each of his shows, and when the producers came in, he challenged them to pick them out. The other editor ended up directing a couple episodes, so I got to take that time and edit a couple of scenes for him. At the end, I was sitting in the producer and director sessions and heard the notes they gave on my scenes. THAT was a big thing.

Mentoring…it is all about mentoring.

I then assisted on that and another show for the same company until I got 5 calls in 1 week to edit. Work long enough and you get to knwo people, and earn a reputation. Well, all the time I was assisting I was editing small films here and there, and another editor I knew liked what I did and hired me for a show he was producing. I ended up at that company off and on for just about 3 years now…but I am a freelancer and go from place to place, people recommending me here and there, or producers I worked with previously hiring me at the new companies they work at.

Then the company I assisted for and got to edit scenes for called me in to be the second editor on a show they were producing for Nickelodeon. Not only did they remember me and my cutting from a few years back, but I edited a film that was directed by one of their ADs, and shot by their DP…I was highly recommended.

Currently I am editing a History Channel show from my home. A producer I met while assisting on UNSOLVED MYSTERIES (one of the many many short term jobs I held) and worked with on a Discovery Channel show hit it off because of our love of the Mac computer, and Final Cut Pro. He landed a big project, and wanted to use FCP for it…and as I was his FCP guru, he hired me.

So I did the typical Hollywood route. PA to Apprentice Editor to Vault manager to Post Coordinator to Assistant Editor to Editor.

The main thing that we cannot lose is MENTORING. If you have an assistant, le them watch you (if time permits). The tough thing these days is that assistants all work at night and editors during the day, and the assistants are busy with their own stuff. Encourage them to edit something for the show on their own…encourage them to edit side projects and bring them in. Give notes…why something worked or didn’t work. I tell you, I learned more by my mistakes than anything.

REPUTATION. If you are a hard worker, and do a good job…and are friendly and fun to work with…you will be hired. If you are good, but don’t bath, or are a grouch…you won’t get hired…unless the Producer likes you.

Anyway…that is my LONG post.

Shane

Shane Ross
Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net

[Chaz Shukat]

Shane,
Great story, man! And well told. My hats off to you because I did a similar Hollywood route but had my wife with me (not out of town) and didn’t have 3 kids to support. I know it was not an easy road (loved the Judge Judy line, as painful as it was for you to live through). Anyway, I totally agree with you about the mentoring.

Best

Chaz S.

[Shane Ross]

Oh yeah…forgot to mention that I was working on starting a family during all this. Yes…I have three kids. That made it very tough indeed. Didn’t become and editor until they were all hatched.

Shane

Shane Ross
Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net

[Rocco Rocco]

Shane – When I was at university in London (96-99) I wrote my thesis on the art of editing and included…. yup you guessed it, U-Turn! s an example of alternative editing techniques to form narrative structure (blah, blah…)

[Shane Ross]

Cool!

Notice my name is ABSENT from the credits? Gah! Me and 10 others…to “save money.” We were $15mil OVERBUDGET, and 10 names on a film print…and thousands of film prints…saves a few thousand dollars.

Yeah…right. OK. Still hurt.

Want stories? E-mail me. I have a few.

Shane

Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net