Time Code Breaks

[Johnno3399]

I am currently using a Sony HDCamSR deck with RS-422 machine control. The nice thing about working at a posthouse. I have to do a batch capture in oreder to change the footage to DVCProHD. The people who shot the footage let the audio guy tie in to the cameras time code and made a mess of all the tape. I was hoping it was a setting thing that I over looked.

Thanks you for all your help.

[Joe Murray]

Well hopefully you’re able to bill by the hour and they’ll learn a lesson from the price they have to pay. Sometimes logging tapes doesn’t even help; if there are very small timecode breaks, you won’t see them until FCP chokes on them when trying to capture. It’s true that Avid handles TC breaks much quicker than FCP, this is because it switches to control track to create the preroll, starts rolling forward then switches back to timecode just before it starts to capture the clip.

Joe Murray

[Herb Sevush]

Johnno

While this thread has been full of very good advice about the importance of careful logging practices in editing, your original question has not been properly answered.

“My question is why does FCP take so long to find the break and then start to encode again?”

The round about answer is that much of FCP is elegant, powerful and a pleasure to use, but then there are the ugly cousins hidden in the corner and the capture process might be the ugliest cousin of them all. We can call him Mortimer. FCP’s inability to handle capturing across time code breaks efficiently is an embarrassment. While in general it’s not good procedure to capture across, or even too near, time code breaks there are times when most editors have to do it – but FCP can’t really handle it. It can make the whole “batch re-capture” scenario a nightmare. There is no excuse for it, other NLE’s can handle this problem and have been doing so for many years. As to why FCP has this problem – well asking “why?” is always tricky but in my opinion it’s partially because many FCP editors seem to feel that criticizing this product is some kind of original sin – so therefore Apple doesn’t feel enough pressure to correct it’s often bizarre limitations.

So the short answer to your question is that FCP sucks at capturing over time code breaks and the reason is that not enough people complain about it.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Herb Sevush] “So the short answer to your question is that FCP sucks at capturing over time code breaks and the reason is that not enough people complain about it.”

…and on that note:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/finalcutpro.html

[Herb Sevush]

JeremyG

It would be nice to think that complaining directly to Apple about FCP shortcomings would do the trick, but for this “type” of problem I don’t think it does.

Apple will respond to “bug” reports caused by new software versions — witness the latest 5.1.3 to 5.1.4 re-write – but I don’t think e-mailing directly works when addressing long term faults in the software. Apple is well aware of these issues, it’s just that they don’t consider these problems “bugs” – instead they have taken on the status of “features” – witness the idiocy of the video mute “bug” which Apple now lists in their documentation as a feature – the fact that using video mute destroys all your renders causes merely a “what me worry” response from the providers of FCP. When dealing with inherent limitations of their software design I think only a public “gnashing of teeth” – at every opportunity and in every forum – might cause them to actually spend the effort necessary to correct these problems. Public complaints might hurt sales – sending in “bug” reports only fills up their servers.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Joe Murray]

I don’t believe this is true. Apple has improved FCP’s functions related to timecode breaks over the last few versions, it’s just that they’re still far from being as good as Avid’s. It would be great if 50-60 people told them this was an important issue…especially with Adobe stepping up to the plate with Premiere Pro for Mac, Apple is going to have to stay on top of user feedback to stay competitive.

[Bob Flood]

Hey Herb!

havent seen you since the edit days? looks like you landed on Apples after jumping off edit, huh? same here! It has not been smooth, but i think in all fairness its cuz i never went to fcp school, but i am actually getting the hang of this crazy thing!

your critique of apples attitude sounds right, but i prefer to be even more cynical and or simple:

I think, and i know i am opening the door on all kinds of nasty comments from this forum, that there are 2 reasons that some of the stuff on FCP still doent work,

1. the program only costs 1,000 bucks, or so

2. Its not really an editing program, its a marketing vehicle to sell apple computers.

However with most technology, asking the why question (why does this work this way. why does this function operate the way it does) doesnt really help.
primarily cuz theres nothin you can do about it right now, with clients breathing down your back, and a deadline looming

I hope we were able to answer the original user who posed the question fix his problem with solutions to the issue

i mean my biggest why question still is : why did edit die? it was so good!

bee eph

[Herb Sevush]

Joe –

Detective Renault: (to Rick Blaine) Rick, I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
Waiter: (to Detective Renault) Your winnings , sir.
(Casablanca)

And I would be shocked, shocked if Apple hasn’t gotten at least five hundred such complaints over the years. I’ve complained to whomever I could find at NAB, but then again that’s part of the problem — who could I find?

My first NLE was the EMC, which I bought almost ten years ago. It could handle time code breaks perfectly. It was a small company a the time and if I picked up the phone I could talk to the founder and chief designer, and if my complaints caused a change in the software my name would be noted in the software updates. Created a certain pride of ownership.

EMC lost the marketing war to Avid and eventually went under. Myself, having an advanced case of the esoteric imperative, I went on to buy another non-Avid NLE, D-Vision ON-Line, later to become Discreet edit*. This was about 7 years ago. It too could handle time code breaks perfectly. It was a larger company, but at user groups in NY and at Discreet’s booth at NAB I met most of the software designers and could talk to them directly about things I didn’t like and design flaws I perceived. As the software matured I saw the effect these conversations had in the way the software grew. Then of course edit* was EOL’d by Discreet and I was cured of the esoteric imperative.

Now I use FCP and for the most part I am very happy with it. But part of the deal is that I know that nothing I say to anybody at Apple will have the slightest effect. Instead I have chosen to become a public nuisance about the shortcomings I see, and hope to stir up enough fuss that it might cause someone in Cuppertino to notice. But I’m not holding my breath.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Herb Sevush]

Bee Eph –

Yes, I’ve been working on FCP for about 3 years. For the most part it works, if not always with the elegance an ex-edit*or would like. As for the death of edit* — well, as they say, the good die young – and to this day I still mutter curses under my breath whenever I hear the name “discreet.”

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Joe Murray]

I agree that Apple is only in the software business to sell computers. I agree that they don’t listen to customers as much as a true software company would. And I agree that there are things broken in FCP that will probably always be broken (like source TC sorted EDL exports for instance) because they affect very few users.

But broken timecode management used to be much worse in FCP. Now there’s a (glacially slow) method for dealing with it, but it’s something at least. Media management used to be much worse as well, and it’s improved if still very weak compared to competitors. Features like this that affect a lot of users are things they have to improve if they want to stay in the game long term. I choose to be optimistic, even where Apple’s concerned.