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The Next FCPX Update
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Premiere just added this capability not long ago, and that software is much more mature than X.”
Do you mean the ability to output sequences with trimmed media via the media manager? I think that’s been around since Premiere Pro 1.0… or maybe 1.5… it was a while ago.
Shawn
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Consolidate yes, (like what happens in Ae or fcpx, a full file copy, not trim), but not consolidate, trim, and subsequently transcode.
That was introduced sometime in Pr CC.
Watch that video I linked to. If you don’t select the consolidate and transcode option, the “handles” option turns off.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “That was introduced sometime in Pr CC.
“Actually it was CC 2014. It’s a very new option.
https://provideocoalition.com/ssimm/story/kicking-the-tires-on-the-adobe-premiere-pro-cc-8.1-update
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Actually it was CC 2014. It’s a very new option. “
That’s consolidate and transcode.
Trimmed consolidation was available for select media formats in prior versions, but Premiere wouldn’t handle transcoding for you until the last big release. The media had to be a suitable format already to use the feature with previous releases.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “That’s consolidate and transcode.”
Isn’t that what we are taking about here? Again, Legend was really good at this becuase very thing was already transcoded and QTKit allowed this kind of management.
[Walter Soyka] “Trimmed consolidation was available for select media formats in prior versions, but Premiere wouldn’t handle transcoding for you until the last big release. The media had to be a suitable format already to use the feature with previous releases.
“Right, so it had to be a perfect setup, and it didn’t work very well. With mixed format timelines (something Pr and now FCPX is very good at) the trim function didn’t work, but instead copied the entire source file, just like FCPX does now.
Even now, today, you cannot trim without a transcode in Pr. You can consolidate, but, not trim the media files, which is what X can do too.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Isn’t that what we are taking about here? Again, Legend was really good at this becuase very thing was already transcoded and QTKit allowed this kind of management. “
We’re talking about outputting used media with handles. That may or may not require transcode.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Right, so it had to be a perfect setup, and it didn’t work very well. With mixed format timelines (something Pr and now FCPX is very good at) the trim function didn’t work, but instead copied the entire source file, just like FCPX does now. “
Agreed. Before, you could have Premiere’s native workflow, or you could have trimmed/handled/consolidated projects, but not both. You could have used Prelude to prep your assets before the edit so you’d have a trimmable project, but you’d lose the big benefit of the native workflow.
This was a really important feature to add, as there was a big fat hole in the workflow before.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Even now, today, you cannot trim without a transcode in Pr. You can consolidate, but, not trim the media files, which is what X can do too.”
I’m not in front my system — does it do this even for the intraframe formats it used to trim?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “[Jeremy Garchow] “We’re talking about outputting used media with handles. That may or may not require transcode.
“It’s going to require a transcode. At some point, you are going to have to make new frames. You won’t be able to trim a red project, for example, as you can’t write new r3d frames, but you can decode then transcode those frames to new frames.
[Walter Soyka] “I’m not in front my system — does it do this even for the intraframe formats it used to trim?”
If you watch this video starting at about 1m40s you’ll see it in action. You can do, what I’m sure you’re familiar with, an Ae (or FCPX) style “collect files” that simply copies all source files at length, or you can consolidate and transcode with handles. You can not trim and add handles without a transcode, because it is difficult to impossible to do this for every format.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s going to require a transcode. At some point, you are going to have to make new frames. You won’t be able to trim a red project, for example, as you can’t write new r3d frames, but you can decode then transcode those frames to new frames. “
I get that. I’m just saying that there are production formats that do not necessarily require transcode. If you’re recording everything from your cameras to ProRes, for example, you should be able to trim without transcoding.
Previous versions of Pr trimmed without transcoding for a handful of formats — just like smart rendering — but now it sounds like it does not.
I meant to point this feature out, but I didn’t mean to be so pedantic. I’d agree with you that in many (most?) workflows, trimming without transcoding is useless.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “I get that. I’m just saying that there are production formats that do not necessarily require transcode. If you’re recording everything from your cameras to ProRes, for example, you should be able to trim without transcoding.
“Lets put it this way. Name a program besides the Legend of FCP3, that can do this today especially with ProRes, that extracts frames, copies them, and makes new clips in the same container and format, without a transcode or rewrap.
[Walter Soyka] “Previous versions of Pr trimmed without transcoding for a handful of formats — just like smart rendering — but now it sounds like it does not.
I meant to point this feature out, but I didn’t mean to be so pedantic. I’d agree with you that in many (most?) workflows, trimming without transcoding is useless.”
I don’t think it worked really well in earlier versions of Pr, and Adobe added a lot of capability at user request; but I think you have to look deeper than that, and have a good look at what is actually possible. X does have some capability built in, just not all capabilities, and right now, adding a trim option seems like it could be possible, but everything would have to be ProRes or transcoded to a singular codec, and now we are back to FCP7, where multiformat editing was a much bigger P.I.A. So, I wouldn’t say the word useless, I’d say it’s not possible all of the time. Adobe pioneered the multiformat timeline, FCPX, is also pretty decent, and with that comes a tradeoff.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Lets put it this way. Name a program besides the Legend of FCPS, that can do this today, especially with ProRes, that extracts frames, copies them, and makes new clips in the same container and format, without a transcode or rewrap. “
Doesn’t MC do this with DNxHD?
FCP7 is still somehow a serious competitor to FCPX with this workflow, and is one of the four big NLE apps (FCP7, FCPX, MC, Pr) people are using, so it doesn’t seem fair to exclude it from consideration.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I dont think it worked real well in earlier versions of Pr and Adobr added a lot of capability at user request.”
I think it did work, but the supported formats were really restrictive, so maybe that’s the “real well” part. Who works exclusively with DVCPRO HD anymore?
[Jeremy Garchow] ” And right now, adding a trim option seems like it could be possible, but everything would have to be ProRes or transcoded to a singular codec, and now we are back to fcp7, where multiformat editing was a much bigger P.I.A.”
If you’re already optimizing media to ProRes, what’s the big deal? FCPX is multi-faux-mat. That’s not a criticism; on the contrary, I think it’s a really smart approach because you can get the best of both worlds.
Also, the only technical requirement for consolidate/trim without transcode is intraframe compression (and you could probably do it with interframe compressed material if you padded the requested handles to fit the GOPs). You wouldn’t have to transcode everything to a common codec unless you were doing it as a courtesy to the next application in the tool chain.
[Jeremy Garchow] “So, I wouldn’t say the word useless, I’d say it’s not possible all of the time. Adobe pioneered the multiformat timeline, FCPX, is also pretty decent, and with that comes a tradeoff.”
Now that we have multiformat timelines, we need consolidate with transcode. It’s kind of a new need, because the last generation of NLEs dealt with a single codec only by design. When you know for a fact that everything on your timeline is DNxHD or ProRes, you can take shortcuts.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn]
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