Spare yourself the misery of 2.0. IT’S A MESS!

[Billyj]

Very interesting but for those whose think it is an acceptable problem, could you please make this easy test : create a 4000×4000 pixels still under photoshop. Put it on the timeline of ppro 2.0 for a duration of 5 sec. Add a scale keyframe to the in point for a value of 30, add a scale keyframe to the out point for a value of 10. Try to render. Now I hope you like coffee very much. What is strange is that if the value of the scaling remains over 50 %, there is no rendering problem.

If you set in 51% / out 52 %, it takes few seconds to render.

If you set in 48% / out 49 %, it takes few minutes.

To my opinion, this is a big problem and cannot be justify by the size of the picture. It is very common to zoom in high res picture. And 4000 pix is not so high today. Vegas can do this kind of calculation without problem. Adobe should correct this as soon as possible for their customers. It is also almost sure that this rendering problem will occur with other filters or settings.

[Aanarav Sareen]

[Norman Frizzle] “encounter system crashs, not just a dump out of PP but my whole system crashing. (And yes, I have had my system checked for integrity.)”

In the many months I have used Premiere Pro 2, I have NEVER once experienced a system crash and that includes in the beta cycles. When I say NOT ONCE, I mean it. I would reccomend you run a deep analysis on your system to find out what is causing the crashes.

[Norman Frizzle] “I was initially very impressed with the Production Suite integration, until I found that at times my Edit Original is whited out, not just in PP but in (as I recall) AE and PHOTOSHOP as well. I thought maybe I needed to have my timeline highlighted or something, but no matter what I do, there are occasions when I cannot access this feature.”

What are you using the Edit Original command for? When you created the file from another application, did you embed the ‘edit original’ info?

[Norman Frizzle] “I still get the dreaded ‘failed to return a video frame’, a catch-all malaise that has never been adequately addressed in PP”

Again, very few people have faced this problem and the error went away, with the media encoder updates.

[Norman Frizzle] “Adobe is not inclined to be terribly cooperative.”

And, they shouldn’t be either. Adobe and Canopus are 2 separate companies with apparently different goals. When did Adobe state that the Canopus Storm was 100% functional with Premiere Pro 2?

[Norman Frizzle] ”
And Dave, when I speak of ‘third party’, I’m referring to Dolby and Media Encoder, in particular the latter. Adobe includes it as a feature, yet when it poses problems interfacing with PP, Adobe disowns it and fobs me off on its maker for service. But it is, after all, how Adobe intracts with these products that is at issue here.”

Again, all I hear is a rant. Not an actual problem.

[Norman Frizzle] “Incidentally, I’d be interested to know just how many beta testers were using Canopus Storm 2, which is generally conceded to be a stable and respected system.”

Canopus dropped the ball on Premiere a while ago. And a company that just drops the ball on a $5000 piece of hardware looses all my business (referring to the Canopus RexRT professional)

[Aanarav Sareen]

[billyj] ”
Very interesting but for those whose think it is an acceptable problem, could you please make this easy test : create a 4000×4000 pixels still under photoshop. Put it on the timeline of ppro 2.0 for a duration of 5 sec. Add a scale keyframe to the in point for a value of 30, add a scale keyframe to the out point for a value of 10. Try to render. Now I hope you like coffee very much. What is strange is that if the value of the scaling remains over 50 %, there is no rendering problem.”

Billy,
Please discuss the issue in the one thread that you started below? Repetitvely posting the same info in numerous threads is not a good idea.

[Kevin Snyder]

Yep.. I have been a little disapointed with 2.0 as well. Good thing for the money back policy. Here is a message from a previous post.

I just have to star off by saying that I love using Adobe’s software for video productiom; however, this release of the Production Studio has been a large disapointment. I am just finishing up my first and last job with the Production Studio due to the fact that I have not had this much trouble since I used Premiere 6.0.

Subclips do not work with large source files (confirmed with everyone that has tried). So I had to go back and recreate all my subclips with clip instances. Kinda a pain, but I was willing to work around subclips for the time being.

Working in the source window is just plain slower in PPRO 2.0. If you bring in a 80 minute clip in the source window there is serios lag in scrubbing the CTI and setting In and Out Points.

PPPRO 1.5 has crashed on me maybe 5 times since I bought it (when it first came out). PPRO 2.0 has crashed 5 times just on this project alone. (Yes, it is a clean install of the OS and Studio) PPRO 2.0 crashes the most when I use the + and – with a number value in the timeline to move the CTI forward or backwards. All the tracks become locked (with the lock icon) and then I get the message that PPRO has crashed.

Tried to use the Dynamic Link. Cool idea, but still needs some work. I imported a RPF image sequence with an alpha channel into AE and used DL to bring the clip into PPRO and the clip was not correct. The alpha channel was correct on the sides of the screen, but drastically wrong in the middle. Okay, maybe I can’t use DL with RPF files…I still remained hopefull.

The last straw…I finally exported my final video (2 hours). In order to get the data rate correct, I exported and avi file so Encore could pick the correct rate so it would fit on the DVD. After Encore encoded the file, Encore displays a message that it is importing the transcoded file. However, it never finishes. Encore just keeps reading the file over and over again and is never successful.

Sad to say, but I am very dissapointed with the studio. I had such high hopes for it. I hope that others are not having the same luck that I had. I returned my copy of the studio in hopes that the next version will be better for me. Back to Video Collection 2.5.

I looked at other options for editing because this experience reminds me of Premiere 6.0, but I am so used to Adobe’s workflow that there is no other choice for me.

[Paul King]

Kevin/Norm

Someone has already replied to your posts in details so I wont.
The Storm barely worked in v1.0. The responsability for Storm integration is soley with Canopus and they have moved away from Storm and Premiere. Norm are you using the Storm card in your Premiere 2 system?

Kevin: Subclips dont work withj large source – you didn’t say what happens. How can you not clarify this?

Long clips – others are not having this problem so how can you blame the software exclusively? Are you using DV? Does your file format match the project settings?

Kevin: clean install of what? What system? do you have drivers for the GPU in your system or are you using the default Windows drivers?

RPF: do you do this once and then give up? Did you try other formats? What kind of alpha did you use?

The AVI file created, did it have audio embeded? What CODEC did you use, was it a DV AVI?

Sounds like you try something the way you think it should work, dont get what you want and then give up. Have you read the book? Are you sure you know what your doing? A lot of people think they are and so blame the software in the first instance.

Paul

[Harm Millaard]

I sympathize with the problems you encounter. It is very frustrating to have an instable system, but IMO this is largely due to the fact that you still have the DVStorm installed in your system. Even with PP1.5 there were numerous bugs, shortcomings and failures that were never properly adressed by Canopus. They have their future on Edius, not on Premiere.

I have used the DVStorm for years and it was, with Premiere 6.0 and 6.5, a great card, apart from the sudden crashes. With the advent of PremPro, it became unuseable and you were better off to tear it out of your system and use it as a dust gathering bin in your garage.

PP 2.0 works quite stable in an OHCI environment. I suggest you completely remove all Canopus drivers and hardware from your system and you will notice a marked improvement in responsiveness and stability.

Harm Millaard

[Kevin Snyder]

Paul,

I love using Adobe software, so I’m not attacking the software or the people that use it (I still plan to use it!), however, there comes a time when a person has to admit that there are problems that exist. Problems that I think should have been caught in beta testing. A lot of times when people are frustrated they need to rant a little, but unfortunaletly the truth is over loooked by others due to the tone of a post. So, I will clarify some of my points in the most productive manor possible.

To start with, subclips are a mess. Try these steps:

1) Import a “large” video file (mine was about 1 hour)
2) Double click the file in the project window so it opens in the source window.
3) Scrub the CTI in the source window to the middle of the clip, set an inpoint
4) Move the CTI approximately 5 minutes forward and set your outpoint.
5) Drag the clip from the source window to the project window.
6) Rename your subclip something.
7) Double click the subclip in the project window so it is opened in the source window and try to play it. (Tried on a couple of machines and it does not play, the hard drive just reads. The clip will eventually play, but after 10-15 seconds)
Drag from the source window to the timeline and try to play the timeline…..Same Thing. If you had a timeline full of subclips, the project would be useless.

Long clips….
The problem with long clips in the source window is not major, just noticed that it was slower than 1.5, I ussually feel that things should improve with a new verson…Yes, I am using DV and the project setting are correct.

Clean install of what?…Windows XP, Service Pack 2, All drivers and software.

RPF – My workflow involves using cinema 4d, so RPF files are important to me because the contain z-depth information. Therefore, other file formats would work, but there is no z-depth information in the file itself. I don’t know why the alpha channel was correct in AE and incorrect in PPRO if it is just frame serving…The problem with DL was not a deal breaker, just one more frustration added to the pile. I was willing to work around the problem, but I just wanted to post my findings in case someone else had trouble. This is the first round of DL, I didn’t think that it would be perfect.

The DV AVI file that I created did have audio embeded, but should the program not work if that is the case?

I see that there was no mention of PPRO crashing when using the + and – with a number value in the timeline to move the CTI forward or backwards. All the tracks become locked (with the lock icon) and then I get the message that PPRO has crashed. It must have happened to you too?

“Sounds like you try something the way you think it should work, dont get what you want and then give up. Have you read the book? Are you sure you know what your doing? A lot of people think they are and so blame the software in the first instance.”
Software is like a little brother sometimes. There are things about it that bother you, but when someone bad mouths it people always jump to its defense. Yes, I have read the book and you can just dismiss me as another one of those people that do not know what I am doing or use some of the features that I mentioned and see for yourself. Just because your workflow does not include some of the features I have mentioned, does not mean that everything is okay. If it is a feature, it should work.

[Redgum]

I agree. I don’t think its fair to flame Adobe software when you are using the Storm card that was superseded by its manufacturer almost a year ago. Canopus don’t support their own card, why should Adobe?
Having said that, Adobe does need to pay attention to some of the repetitive problems highlighted in this forum. Personally, I really like PP v2 and have just finished two 1 hour doco’s in HDV, used my great array of plug-ins, had no crashes and only suffer from caffine overload.

Redgum Television Productions
Broadcast & Corporate Documentaries
Brisbane, Australia

[Norman Frizzle]

I should have made myself more clear. When I used Canopus, it was with 1 and 1.5, at which time PP had certified it for acceptable use. It was iffy in 1.0, but even worse in 1.5.

As soon as I learned that Capopus was not and would not be certified for PP 2.0, I removed it from my system. For the present I use system resounses. I have to unless I want to pay $1000 for the ASA card, the one and only choice Adobe offers me for alleged compatibility, plus $2000 plus more for the system upgrade I need to operate it.

I do my generic DV captures on a generic card. Since I don’t have a capture card with dedicated resourses, I certainly cut PP some slack in the playback. But I do expect the software encoding to work.

IT DOESN’T.

Aanarav, whatever anomalies you encounter as a beta tester are obviously dealt with first-hand by Adobe gnomes who are at your beck and call. Your experience therefore cannot possibly be typical of the end user.

When the rap sheet sheet for the ‘failed to return, etc’ is a mile long, the problem did not as you say “go away”. It has NEVER EVER gone away. And if a patch from Media Encoder did the trick, then why have there been several of them? Why don’t they fix the problem?

You are in an enviable position. You have a problem, it gets fixed.

I have a problem. It doesn’t.

[Tim Kolb]

[Kevin Snyder] “I see that there was no mention of PPRO crashing when using the + and – with a number value in the timeline to move the CTI forward or backwards. All the tracks become locked (with the lock icon) and then I get the message that PPRO has crashed. It must have happened to you too?”

I don’t use RPF files and I don’t have any media files over an hour long, but I did try the + and – key thing…I can’t see where I’d use it personally, but I don’t see any tracks locking and certainly no crashing…

I’m not saying that you don’t have a problem, but maybe it wasn’t reported during beta testing because none of us had a problem with it?

I selected the timecode number in the sequence window and typed the + and a number or the – and a number and it moved the CTI that number of frames…and no issues. Is this what you mean or do I need to do something different?

TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net