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Sony XDcam PDW-F350 or Panasonic HPX500
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Technology is moving at an amazing clip. But, (and I know I’m going to catch hell for this) I think that the business is starting to get too cheap. By this, I mean that it used to cost a lot of money to produce quality programming. The HVX200 mentioned above is higher quality than our $30,000 Sony 507 BetaCams of 20 years ago when a good edit system cost between $50K and $350K. Today, we pay $30K for the equivelant of the $350K system of yesterday. This is actually bad for business but very good for the noobies. When I needed the second 36Gigs of SCSI for my D-Vision, I had to take out a loan for $5000 – for 36 gigs!!!!. Now you get 500 gigs for $200. How can these companies survive?
The jobs are going to the cheapest bidder and a lot of it looks like crap because companies are compromising quality for a lower price. There were people who made a good living as freelence producers. They’re going away at an alarming rate.
People are always asking why they can’t get deluxe options on small cameras like the 200. Here it is: “You get what you pay for” and “You don’t get what you don’t pay for”. Panasonic’s line of HD cameras is somewhat almost free in my book and yet, there are some crybabies who want it all for free. Well, if Panasonic, Sony and everyone else starts cutting prices to get everyone’s cheap ass business, where will they be in the next five years. Ten years ago, we would not dream of shooting a professional job on anything less that a 2/3″ chip and now, 1/4″ chips??? Those F-900s and Varicam’s cost a lot of money because there is a LOT of money tied up in R&D, materials and support. And the support that goes behind those products is enormous. The majors have repair centers on both coasts. Before something can be designed, built and ready to go out the door, it’s blown away by something new. And where do all of the parts come from? Jim Jennard is finding this out as we speak. He can’t even get his first product out the door. Companies quit making circuit boards and electronics if it’s easier to make money in another industry. No profit = no product.
IMHO, as far as tape vs drives vs cards or whatever we’ll have going in five years, you need to be able to maintain the original footage and the data that goes with it. As I see it, for P2, shoot on cards and back up to large optical discs, like Blu-Ray. The 50 gig discs are out or almost out and it will 200 gigs in a short time. When P2 made it’s appearance at NAB a few years ago, (Yes, P2 existed long before the HVX200) I told Jim McGowan, the Panny rep, “This is the answer to news cameras.” And I still hold that to be true. I also said to him “When the cards get larger and cheaper, you probably won’t be able to make enough cameras to fill the demand.” I believe I was correct in that respect also. Competition is good. Low prices hurt the entire industry.
My first DV camera was an EZ-1. Ever heard of it?
SO, I guess that’s my response to the capture storage comment.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
Jan,
I just called him and sent him an e-mail link to this thread. I also CCd you on that e-mail.Thanks for joining us on the Sony CineAlta HD forum. We appreciate your support.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
I sent the info to your Blackberry. But, you already knew that, didn’t you?
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut Pro systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck -
Getting back to the original question…..
I can only speak about the 350, but I can say this is a fantastic camera for the money. It has been 100% reliable and it’s resolution is pretty close to a 750, in fact we use them with 750’s all the time and they cut together very well. One thing Sony is doing is upgrading the camera via firmware on a regular basis, which is very unlike Sony!
Variable frame rates in 1080 are fantastic as is the pre-record cache which really helps in event filming.
Tapeless workflow is great, I prefer XDCam because it takes the archiving workflow out of the equation.
The camera is also fully approved for 100% production for Discovery HD and NatGeo, I’m not sure if the same can be said for the 500, perhaps Jan will know more about this.
The 350 also has a fantastic little brother coming out shortly in the shape of the XDCam EX.
Just a personal opinion of course!
Steve Connor
Adrenalin TelevisionHave you tried “Search Posts”? Enlightenment may be there.
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Steve,
If you rely on your ability to invest in expensive gear to place-hold your position in the market, you’re going to have a bad next decade. In the end, it is you or your company’s talents that drive your fortunes.
Look no farther than to the audio recording business for what is to come for video. A once expensive landscape of esoteric recording studios has become thousands and thousands of home studios. That business has changed drastically.
It is up to you and I to figure out where we fit as cameramen, or producers, or technicians when everybody can afford a camera and everybody has the means to edit. To pine for expensive prices to keep out the riff-raff will only end in tears.
[Steve Wargo] “The jobs are going to the cheapest bidder and a lot of it looks like crap because companies are compromising quality for a lower price. “
I think you’re oversimplifying. Chances are, to characterize your customers as just wanting “the cheapest bidder” is probably to underestimate them. You say yourself, that an HVX can make a better picture than a Beta rig of 20 years ago. If the HVX now gets the job, then what does that say?
New website, new work online:
https://www.nateweaver.net -
Everyone though Desktop Publishing would kill the print and design industry but when I last checked it still appeared to be there.
Just because chisels are cheap doesn’t mean anyone can become a sculptor.
Steve Connor
Adrenalin TelevisionHave you tried “Search Posts”? Enlightenment may be there.
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[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Actually the old SDX block was 525,000 pixels and the best it could do was 30 frames per second. This is a new vision. It is ab;es to samp;le at 60 frames per second, something that the SDX could not do.”
Not in PAL.[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Oh please, we are talking about a $14,000 camera, that is the HPX500. Do you really expect it to have 1.1 million pixels? The trade off is that it is a 2/3″ Imager. It really is about whether you have the budget. If you can do the 1.1, then the HPX2000 would fit in against the F350 price. But I find it odd that Pete can find the F350 at the HPX500 price. I wonder why?”
Why….?? Well it is quite simple Jan…it is not $14,000.Do not forget to spend another US4,000 on memory-that is if one can buy one.
And then you need CERTIFIED lens,HD lens…that is another $$$$.
And then you spend another $2,500 on 2′ VF.
Last time i enquired about HPX2,000 it was US28,000 + VF + P2….US$33,000.. -
This is the best post i have ever read on this forum.
jiri vrozina/australia -
Very interesting thread yes. XDCam and DVCProHD are the options that I’m considering too. I read what ever I can about those two formats to see if there is any tip that make me decide for one or the other. But I’ve got a simple question. How can the two systems give a similar quality when one run a signal of 100Mbs and the other one only 35Mbs? From a theoreticall point of view DVCProHD should allow much better quality. Or not? Any idea?
Rafael -
[rafalaos] “How can the two systems give a similar quality when one run a signal of 100Mbs and the other one only 35Mbs? From a theoreticall point of view DVCProHD should allow much better quality.”
With XDCAM hd mpeg2 codec 35Mbs is more like 80Mbs in DVCPRO hd.
DVCPRO hd format is a bit better then XDCAM hd 35Mbs…..that is,if one has megapixel block in front of it.
This will change with the introduction of XDCAM hd 50 in September.To get the perfect formula for HD,one needs good HD glass,1920×1080 block,good digital processing and 4:2:2 HD recorder like DVCPRO hd,XDCAM hd 50,HDCAM(sr) or ??
We do not live in perfect world so to save money we take short cuts.
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