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Sony PMW F3 Camera
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Craig, I’m not here to convince anyone of anything. The point is you’re trying to compare two different classes of cameras. That’s an exercise in futility.
You speak of “ifs” and that could be applied to anything and everything. We aren’t dealing with “ifs,” we’re dealing with reality–what the situation is. You were the one that pointed out, rightly so (and I paraphrase), that just as there are classes of cameras, there are classes of “indy” film production.
So back to the bottom line: If you can’t afford the F3 get the AF-100, stop whining, and get on with your production.
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[Jay Gladwell] “The point is you’re trying to compare two different classes of cameras. That’s an exercise in futility.”
No, I’m comparing codecs and the cost of implementation.
[Jay Gladwell] “just as there are classes of cameras, there are classes of “indy” film production.”
But I can’t think of a class the F3 will compete in successfully. Will there be a motive to buy or rent it over the RED Epic-S for example? Sorry but I just can’t think of any beyond the “baby F35” situation. I’d love to see a different assessment and why. I’ve made my assessment and listed very concrete reasons. Price, codec, mobility/ease of use/ergonomics. It doesn’t win in any category I can think of.
[Jay Gladwell] “If you can’t afford the F3 get the AF-100, stop whining, and get on with your production.”
You’re making an unfounded assumption. Price is ONE factor. I listed the others in my previous post and again above. If someone has the money for a rental or $20k+ for a kit I can’t see choosing an F3 over any number of RED cameras, the lowest priced large sensor RED being the Epic-S.
I can’t think of one feature where the F3 LEADS. S-log, Dual Link . . . I would choose this over RED’s codec and recording capabilities why? I would only if that specifically is my workflow (such as already using F35 as an “A” camera).
For example:
EX1 leads in lowest price 1/2″ sensor, image resolved resolution, ease of use quality codec over AVCHD
EX3 leads in 1/2′ sensor, interchangeable lenses.
EX 320 leads in low price 1/2″ sensor, shoulder mount ergonomics.
EX 350 leads in low price 2/3″ CMOS sensor
EX 500 leads in low price 2/3″ CCD sensor, records 50mbps 4:2:2 to SxS card for ease of use quality codecF3 leads in what category? Codec nope, ergonomics nope, price per feature set nope, sensor let’s see what Epic-S does. F3 leads in integration with F35 production pending S-log and Dual Link implementation.
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Reasons why I am on the PMW-F3 preorder list and will have one in February:
-SxS & Batteries match workflow and accessories I already own for use with my EX1.
-HD-SDI out will permit 10bit external recording for clients who desire it, with SxS for backup and offline editing purposes.
-Super35 sensor means PL glass can be used with no cropping. Full frame glass can be used with about a 20% crop. AF-100 sensor is 20% smaller than the PMW-F3, which means significant cropping when using PL or fullframe glass.
-MTF is making an adapter that will permit me to use my Zeiss ZF Nikon mount lenses on the PMW-F3.
-In the videos I’ve seen the PMW-F3 out performs the AF100 in terms of picture quality. Resolution, detail, clarity, everything. The fact that the chip was built from the ground up for this camera is probably part of that.
-Low light capabilities look phenomenal.
-Rolling shutter appears to be very minimal. On par with the EX1.
-Moire and aliasing are not a problem. Performs admirably.
-Deep focus shots don’t fall apart.-Fact is, my client base doesn’t want to deal with the RED post workflow. When they do, I can rent.
-I’ll be putting rails on this, yes – but overall, it’s going to be much easier to use and much lighter than my EX1 was with the Letus adapter.
-Intrigued by Sony’s powered zooms for this camera
Do I wish it was cheaper? Sure. But I don’t see a competitor providing what I want for a better price. The AF100 looked nice until I saw the specs and footage for the PMW-F3.
RED requires heavy post work. I don’t need that on a daily basis. A lot of indie stuff I work, they don’t want that much post work. Some clients will be happy with the internal 4:2:0. For others I’ll use an Aja Ki Pro Mini or such.
The fact is, this camera will pay for itself in work, and when I want to trade up I’ll get the rest back out of selling the camera.
If it doesn’t work for you, don’t buy it.
But be accurate about the price comparisons please! It’s not $18,000 without lenses! It’s $13,300 without lenses. Sure, Red said Epic-S will be around $12,000. By the time they actually release it (after all the more expensive Epic cameras) that could easily be $13,000 or $14,000. And that’s just for the brain! Doesn’t even come with internal recording. So add all the accessories! I’m guessing to deck out the Epic-S you’re still close to $20k without lenses. And it may well not be out until Fall. If then.
For me, the PMW-F3 in February is the best answer. If it’s not the answer for you, that’s fine. Move on.
Everyone acts like this is all a giant conspiracy to overprice the camera. Supply and demand. A commodity is worth what people are willing to pay for it. And I assure you, there are people willing to pay Sony’s asking price for this camera.
*Sony PMW-EX1
*Letus Ultimate
*Final Cut Studio 2 -
I’ve never seen a Sony camera that far below MSRP. From what I read it was Sony that was stating $18k for the body so one might assume $16.5, not $13.3K “street”
https://www.abelcine.com/store/Sony-PMW-F3L-Super-35mm-XDCAM-EX-Camera-body-only-DEPOSIT -
It was a $16k street price for body only. The dealers all signed paperwork agreeing to not sell it for less than $13,300. So that’s the going rate. $18950 for kit with glass.
Obviously, $13,300 is a very different price than $18,000 for just the body!
I think at $18,000 I would have gone with the AF100 for the time being.
*Sony PMW-EX1
*Letus Ultimate
*Final Cut Studio 2 -
I remember the EX3 MSRP was $11000.00 when it was introduced and it still sells for $8300.00
Good Luck
Michael Palmer -
When you consider the PMW-320 and 350 without lens is $10.3K and $17.5K respectively than $13.3K really does fall in line with other EX pricing.
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I’m about to shoot a film using the Sony PMW-EX3 camera with an attached 35mm lens does anyone have any tips especially on what frame rate to use for that cinema look and any other helpful tips would be much appreciated.
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Most who shoot for a full length feature film will generally use 1080 24p with a starting shutter speed of 1/48th.sec. Of course, there’s so much more to achieving the ‘film look’ than just frame rate and shutter speed.
– Don
Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com -
PHILIP, Bear in mind that this DOES NOT compete with panasonic AF100. PMW F3 is one or two steps ahead. AF100 competes with DSLR, in a atempt to make cimematograhers undestands tha DSLR is a equipment to make STILLs images. This filming capabilities is for the operator make a urgent film in a street for example, or a father who is shooting the labor of her wife in hospital , and resolves to filming the birth process. Like craig Seeman said , is a baby F35, for shooting the things that the people is using DSLR and beyond.For the last instance is a SONY equipment. Period !
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