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Sony EX3 shot at 24p- finish 29.97
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Apparently the producers I am working with have done this a lot before. Well, they haven’t done it themselves, they hired someone who did it. Now that someone is me. Correct me if I’m wrong. If I choose a sequence setting at 29.97 and bring my 24p footage in, I will have to render everything. Or, can I use log and transfer to bring the footage into FCP at 29.97?
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[Lisa Olshanski] “Correct me if I’m wrong. If I choose a sequence setting at 29.97 and bring my 24p footage in, I will have to render everything. “
If your footage is 23.98, yes you will. 24p can be either 23.98 or 29.97…
[Lisa Olshanski] “Or, can I use log and transfer to bring the footage into FCP at 29.97?”
The frame rate you shoot is the frame rate you edit. If it was shot 23.98, then it will come in 23.98.
Shane
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[Lisa Olshanski] ” If I choose a sequence setting at 29.97 and bring my 24p footage in, I will have to render everything. “
This is the worst thing you could do. Final Cut Pro isn’t smart enough to add a proper 3:2 pulldown to 24p material to make it play back properly in a 29.97 interlaced sequence. If you’re not familiar with 3:2 pulldown, check out this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#3:2_pulldown
FCP can’t add 3:2 pulldown – what it does instead is add a duplicate of every 4th frame, resulting in a pattern of three unique whole frames followed by two identical whole frames. This is referred to as 2:2:2:4 pulldown, and it looks atrocious. It looks as if your video is stopping and restarting every 4th frame, which essentially, it is.
If you absolutely have to deliver a 29.97 timeline, then you’ll first have to transcode all of your 24p footage to 29.97 with 3:2 pulldown added using Compressor. This involves a significant amount of time as well as knowledge of what specific settings to use in Compressor. That’s a subject worthy of its own thread.
If this workflow is going to be repeated in the future, make the producers aware of the issue so that they can plan accordingly and either shoot 24p over 29.97 or plan on the extra time it will take to transcode native 24p footage prior to editing in a 29.97 sequence. Better still, convince them to work in a native 24p environment and let the video output hardware add 3:2 pulldown on output to tape.
If a 24p look is desired for material that is ultimately headed for broadcast, the easiest workflow by far is to shoot and edit footage in a native 24p (23.98) environment, then allow video output hardware (AJA Kona card, etc.) to insert 3:2 pulldown upon layoff to tape. If the final output is to be file-based instead of tape-based, then Compressor can be used at the end of the process to add 3:2 pulldown to the completed output using the same technique as described above.
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I understand that there is a better way to do this than what they are doing, but I don’t have much control over that. The network I’m delivering to will only accept a 29.97 timeline so adding the pulldown at output is not an option. Plus, it’s all tapeless. So, I guess the best thing to do is convert everything in Compressor. Thanks!
This was posted earlier in the thread:
Export a ref movie from FCP and open that up in Compressor.
Make a new QT setting and in the Encoder tab hit the video settings button.
Choose the codec of your dreams and the set the frame rate to 29.97, then click OK.
Back in the encoder tab, set the audio drop down menu to Pass Through.
Go to the frame controls tab on turn on frame controls.
Resize, Deinterlace, and Rate Conversions should all be set to Fast, and then turn the Output Fields to Upper Field First (for HD). Duration should be 100%
Leave the filters tab alone unless you want to tweak something there.
In the Geometry tab set the frame size to 100% of source if your movie is full raster HD, if not choose the closest equivalent of full raster (1920 or 1280).
Hit Submit. Wait. Then you have a 29.97 Upper Field first movie with correct 3:2 pulldown. You can now dance the marimba.
Shane, I think you said you use this method too. What codec do you suggest I use? I usually use H.264 but that’s when I’m compressing something for the web. Is there a codec I can use where I won’t lose any quality? What do you use?
Thanks for all your help.
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[Lisa Olshanski] “Is there a codec I can use where I won’t lose any quality?”
Your best bet is probably Apple ProRes 422. It holds up very well in exactly this kind of operation (transcoding long-GOP source material to a durable I-frame codec). I would do the log and transfer as you expected to, and then take all of your transferred clips and convert them (with the method I described above) using Apple ProRes 422 as the codec. Once that’s done, you’ll have all of your clips as 29.97, ready to start assembly.
If only this job were a Media Composer job. With AMA for the XDCAM footage and Mix-and-Match for the pulldown insertion, your job would be ready to assemble in seconds…
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Okay. Let me just make sure I’m going to do this correctly….
I’ll put my SxS card into the MacPro. Copy all the footage (by dragging it) into an external drive. Then I’ll open FCP and use log and transfer to bring the clips in. Then I’ll export each of the clips as a QT reference into Compressor. Can I just use Send To-Compressor? In Compressor, I’ll do the method you described.This that right? Sorry to over simplify it.
Thanks so much for your help Mark! I recently switched from Avid to FCP. Seems like that’s what most people use here in the ATL.
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Hi. I did this and still ended up with the 4th frame duplicating itself. Help!
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Going by the instructions I gave you for Compressor, it should work. I just tested it again. I have a 23.976p file, and process it through those settings, I wind up with a 29.97 file (interlaced) where the frame to field repeating pattern is 2:3. In other words, every other frame is repeated into an extra field, such that for A B C D frames in 24p, you get AA BB BC CD DD fields in 29.97. The easiest way to see these fields individually is to output to a Digi or HDCAM at 29.97 interlaced, and from the deck you can jog through field by field. If you’re looking at the file in Quicktime or FCP, you’re seeing blended fields – there’s no way the viewer will show you field by field.
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Okay. I made the mistake of making my QT self contained. It looks right now. Thanks so much!
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Weird. So the files with the duplicated 4th frame actually look better. But, I have another strange question. When I exported the 24p files as DVCPro 29.97 files from FCP and got the duplicated 4th frame, the clip also ended about 10 seconds too soon. When I did it through compressor, I think the pull down was right but the clip now started late. What’s going on there?
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