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So what happens to our hardware…?
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Here’s the news of the Sandy Bridge delay.
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” I also asked about HPs and Dells. “
HP and Dell workstations aren’t really sold in consumer box stores. Maybe you could find them at BH in New York or a VAR near you, but they’ve never been available at Best Buys or HH Greggs or CompUSA. And there is no Dell store or HP store like there is an Apple store, so you’re comparing apples to oranges. But I do think it’s silly for Apple to stock more than one MacPro.
[Jeremy Garchow] “What would happen if your z800 died?”
Friend of mine has the Z400. Had a problem with it, called HP, a tech came to his house and switched the motherboard, no charge. It was a warranty repair and HP came to him. No hauling the system to the store or anything. That’s what you get when you buy their professional grade workstation – professional grade service, as you should expect.
When we had an issue with the xw8200 (predecessor to the 8400 which was before the z800) at the TV station I worked at, a tech came there too and swapped out parts when we had an issue. I think it’s easier for them to just replace an entire motherboard in 20 minutes then to troubleshoot for hours while you stand there losing money. I thought it was a pretty smart strategy, really.
But really, Apple stores probably don’t stock or sell a lot of MacPros so I couldn’t put too much weight on not finding them in the stores, but it has been an awfully long time since there’s been a substantial update.
Time will tell.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
I think Apple is just making the next step in the evolution of computers.
The Towers are a thing of the past. There really is no need for them any more.
To me it makes sense to make smaller enclosures and for those that need expansion do that using Thunderbolt or Esata or whatever is next.
If Apple can produce a smaller lower wattage unit that can deliver the power most of us need, it is a good thing.
I have no inside information, this is just my guess. My MBP runs circles around my $12,000.00 9600 Mac with a $30.000.00 video card and a $10,000.00 SCSI raid 4GB I think of mid 90’s vintage. I still have parts of this system running in a PowerMac, and a couple energy hogging pro CRT monitors.
My point is things are getting smaller cheaper and much more powerful. I still have 2 MP’s with AJA cards and another with a Matrox MX02. But I bet my next new system will be some form of MacMiniPro or whatever with Thunderbolt IO and Thunderbolt RAIDS possible SST’s using very little power.
And I also will bet that HP etc. will copy these new computers as well. These are exiting times. And sometimes progress can be scary. But just look at how much smaller less expensive and capable the new technology is.
To think that computers will always keep the same form factor is silly I think. I still remember when CPU’s took up whole rooms.
Olof Ekbergh
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Excatly Mr. olof! Thatis excatly what is happening that most are having a hard time grasping. That technology is is continously evolving and currently taking on forms that doesnt look as huge and “serious or pro” as the ones we had before but has actually more power and caabilities in it.
The whole point of a pro’s requirement for a workstation is POWER! To be able to run efficiently the ever bloating pro softwares and do them faster and more efficient than they ever could before. As long a new systems can provide you that power REGARDLESS if they are the size of a hockey puck, it should not matter as long as you can do your job in it.
And fortunately Apple has been leading that evolution. They have always been the first to offer new ways to give you power in a whole new form for greater flexibility. Remember firewire? And thats what they are doing now with thunderbolt. And everyone else follows them afterwards. We already reached a point where consumer processors can already match / surpass professional grade processors, and power and cooling requirements are decreasing as well, so of course you should expect apple tonput them in a smaller prettier case…but make no mistake that they will be more powerful than the tower ever been.
Quobetah
New=Better -
“The Towers are a thing of the past. There really is no need for them any more.”
This may be true for editors,but for 3D/VFX artists and audio post/producton professionals, there will always be a need for the most powerful machines available.
Shawn
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Ugh. Apple tightly controls their hardware to offering a more controlled system to their clients for stability. I did not mention risk, I did not mention other platforms aren’t stable, I am talking about Apple and it’s philosophies. Please, I ask you, please, stop putting words in my mouth.”
I apologize. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth — but please understand that it’s very easy to misinterpret what you wrote.
When you say that Macs prioritize stability over speed, and that PCs offer speed, there’s an unstated implication that PCs are sacrificing stability to get it in a way that Macs are not. I don’t think that’s the case at all, and that’s the point I’m trying to raise here.
In a way, I’m playing your role in the FCPX debate. There are a lot of people here who are very comfortable on one system and who are worried about its future, but who are unwilling to evaluate other options just because they are different.
Just like you say that FCPX deserves consideration, I’d say Windows deserves consideration. Just like you say FCPX isn’t for everyone, I’d say Windows isn’t for everyone.
I’m not suggesting everyone dump their Macs for PC hardware today. I’m not dumping mine. I’ve got a lot of Apple hardware here that I like, that I use, and that I will continue to use.
I am saying that there’s this widespread belief among Mac users that PCs are not well-suited for professional, creative work. I used to think this, too, but Windows 7 is a giant improvement in “just-works-ability.” Reasonable people can reasonably choose Windows systems to integrate into cross-platform workflows, or to run their creative businesses entirely — without a degree in computer engineering.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You don’t have to RegEdit, you don’t have to install separate drivers, you don’t have to edit DLLs, you don’t have to rip apart your machine. Macs have traditionally been less tinker, and more controlled system.”
Regular users don’t have to drop into RegEdit any more than regular Mac users have to drop into the Terminal. For either platform, if you’re trying to do something advanced that the GUI doesn’t have built-in, then there are very likely step-by-step instructions that are just a quick Google away.
I do have to install separate drivers on both Macs and PCs for hardware like my Quadro cards, my RAID card, my H.264 accelerator, my capture cards, my Wacom tablets, my 3D Connexion, my Logitech trackballs, and my Wave control surface. On both OSes, I go to the manufacturers web site, download the installer, run it, and keep working.
I don’t really know what you mean by “rip apart your machine,” but I wouldn’t say I’ve done that on either platform — or I’ve done it on both.
DLL conflicts were a nightmare on 16-bit, shared memory systems — in other words, pre-NT systems like Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98. Modern Windows systems are capable of loading different and conflicting copies of the same DLL as required by different programs in separate, protected application memory spaces. Modern Windows installers don’t overwrite shared DLLs, and do implement package management for dependency tracking.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I think there is a trade off. Absolutely. Some programs are way more crashy, but they get the job done faster. “
Crashes are a computer problem, not a Mac or Windows problem. Ask anyone who had FCPX beach ball issues about crashy programs that got the job done faster, right?
[Jeremy Garchow] “Macs favor a rock solid OS, and Windows doesn’t care as much about that as they wanted people to tinker with it. They don’t sell systems, they sell a part of a system. They have different philosophies. Right?”
Although Microsoft exposes more options and controls to the user than Apple does, I don’t think their OS philosophy is to specifically encourage people to tinker with their systems and sacrifice stability to offer that customization.
Windows 7 is really very stable. It has been a pleasant surprise.
[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s not about if the computers turn on or not, or about processing speed, it is simply about running a network of computers that I have to support as long as do my day job of editing.”
Totally fair. I understand that you’re more comfortable with Macs than PCs. I understand why you wouldn’t want to switch. Macs are a good tool in your workflow — and mine too — and I hope that Apple continues to give us all good options for getting our work done for a long time to come.
But remember that you are already familiar with Macs (as others are with FCP7). You’ve already internalized what you need to do to keep them working. PCs (like FCPX) may be workable and appropriate for some if they put in a little time to adjust to a new system.
You mentioned elsewhere your experiences with Windows Server for your SAN. I think that’s a totally different experience than a desktop Windows system. It’s got a ton of nuanced, complex tools which are meaningful for and useful to experienced network administrators. I’m sure I’d be about as comfortable trying to administer Windows Server as a network administrator would be trying to model, texture, light and render graphics.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I respect you and your views, so take this as no offense, but if I had a free machine, I’d use it too and probably speak very well of it. You can’t beat free.”
No offense taken at all. I like to think that I’ve earned everyone’s trust here by giving honest opinions and reasonable analysis, but I also think that disclosure is important so you can choose how many grains of salt to take with my opinions.
That said, for a free system, it’s been very expensive. I’m putting my money where my mouth is, investing thousands of dollars in software licenses, plugins, upgrades, peripherals, and storage — not to mention my time — when I could have just continued working with my perfectly good Mac Pro.
The cost of one computer in the context of the other systems I have running here is small, and I had big concerns about integration challenges moving to a real cross-platform workflow. Jumping in the deep end was a risk, and I wasn’t sure if it would pay off.
Just like you with FCPX, I wanted to see what an alternative system could do. I didn’t expect the grass to be greener necessarily, but I did expect it to be different.
Overall, I have been genuinely impressed with the experience so far. More to come as I continue to work with it.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[olof ekbergh] “The Towers are a thing of the past. There really is no need for them any more.”
There are plenty of reasons to still use a tower. This falls into the same argument that “tape is dead.” Tape is far from dead and towers are not in the past.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“This American Land” – our new PBS Series.
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[Gerald Baria] “We already reached a point where consumer processors can already match / surpass professional grade processors, and power and cooling requirements are decreasing as well, so of course you should expect apple tonput them in a smaller prettier case…but make no mistake that they will be more powerful than the tower ever been.”
Are you suggesting that a current top-of-the-line i7 system performs better than a current top-of-the-line Xeon system?
This argument has been put forth quite a bit here on this forum, but if you only watch progress in the consumer space, you are missing all the progress in the workstation space. Current-generation consumer processors may surpass previous-generation workstation processors, but they really can’t compete with current ones.
Editors may not need all that power, but adjacent markets like effects, animation, and compositing do.
Miniaturization comes at the expense of power. You can make today’s processor smaller tomorrow, or you can keep it the same size and make it faster.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Michael Hancock] “HP and Dell workstations aren’t really sold in consumer box stores.”
You passed! It was a trick question, really.
[Michael Hancock] “Friend of mine has the Z400. Had a problem with it, called HP, a tech came to his house and switched the motherboard, no charge. It was a warranty repair and HP came to him. No hauling the system to the store or anything. That’s what you get when you buy their professional grade workstation – professional grade service, as you should expect. “
Apple does this too with their business customers. We had a SuperDrive go and an authorized repair center came over and swapped it since it wasn’t a “user replaceable” part, even though I begged them to send me one.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Apple does this too with their business customers. We had a SuperDrive go and an authorized repair center came over and swapped it since it wasn’t a “user replaceable” part, even though I begged them to send me one.”
Nice! I didn’t realize they did this. The way I’ve heard people on these and other forums talk I just assumed you had to haul your system to an Apple store or ship it in. Our in-house IT handles everything with our Macs, so I was unaware they actually had a business division like that. Do you pay extra for it or is this covered under the standard warranty (or AppleCare)?
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Michael Hancock
Editor
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