So I went off on a rant about FCPX on the “FCP” forum…

[Bret Williams]

The list of basics PPro is missing is much longer. Ah, but they’re adding them if you care to rent them in he next version.

Seriously, the only point we have in common is the one about trimming multiple clips at once. But since you can slice through them all at once, it’s a decent alternative. A g tool would be welcome though. With a keystroke you could compound them, trim, then un compound,

Event manager is nice. But not necessary. You don’t have to be a genius to manage them by hand. Had to do quite a bit of that with legacy. All the media was hand managed. Where to put the scratch, where to put project files, etc. it’s called working on a computer. You’re going to have to move files around. I don’t see why you need an app to delete a couple preference files. Although I rarely have had to do that.

Duplicating a project is now called duplicate. Go figure. You should have never been using save as. Makes a mess of things in legacy. Projects being separate in X is wonderful keeps the render files tied to the timeline. No chance of deleting render files from one project and having it affect another.

As for all your performance issues, I just don’t see them. Restarting X even with a hundred projects online takes seconds. Duplicating a project without renders is nearly instantaneous. I think you might want to try it on an iMac. The last Mac Pro was in 2010’ and even it didn’t have the tech to accelerate X as it was designed.

[Bret Williams]

Now that they’ve incorporated the best features of MC, Legacy, and even a few from X like hover scrub, what will they add in future updates? Will they have to wait for other apps to come up with something new? 🙂

[Bret Williams]

It is however still called Final Cut Pro and is the latest version of The software. When looking for the right forum for newbies to post, it’s understandable they would choose the FCP forum. The other two choices are debate or techniques. They sound specific. So since the FCP forum isn’t marked as a EOL’D software forum, it’s not surprising that you see so many X posts there. Why not call it FCP 1-7 forum, and FCP X forum? Lose the techniques thing. That never made any sense.

[Dennis Radeke]

Hey Nicholas,

Didn’t read your initial post that way at all. Besides that…What Shane said… 😉

Cheers,
Dennis

[Herb Sevush]

[Nicholas Zimmerman] “I honestly can’t see any reason to stick with Legacy other than an aversion to change. “

While I would like and am actively searching for a non zombied NLE, at the moment, given my workflow, none of the alternatives comes close to giving me the speed and flexibility of Legacy.

I still need tape in and out, so there goes any desire for FCPX; 99% of my material is Quicktime ProRes which does not need rendering in FCP7, so there goes any need for Avid,FCPX or PPro; I need very robust multi-cam, so that throws out PPro; I like the ability to “send” to Motion so there’s Legacy over X again, I prefer to edit with my video and audio disconnected and therefore depend on robust sync markers – so out goes X and PPro again.

What you can’t see is simply a testament to your limitations and lack of vision.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Nicholas Zimmerman]

[Bret Williams] “Why not call it FCP 1-7 forum, and FCP X forum? Lose the techniques thing. That never made any sense.”

Basically what I would like to see as well.

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Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 – wasting away on my SSD.
I just can’t quit X.
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[Nicholas Zimmerman]

[Herb Sevush] “at the moment, given my workflow, none of the alternatives comes close to giving me the speed and flexibility of Legacy”

That’s a shame.

[Herb Sevush] “I still need tape in and out, so there goes any desire for FCPX”

I think Apple were just a few years too early to kill this feature. I’ll either ingest in 7 or Resolve and print out of either one too.

[Herb Sevush] “99% of my material is Quicktime ProRes which does not need rendering in FCP7”

So long as you don’t add any filters, color correction, composite layers.

[Herb Sevush] “I need very robust multi-cam, so that throws out PPro”

X’s multicam is much better than 7’s. I did a concert gig with 5 HD cameras, output from the live switcher, and audio from the mixing board. Some cameras turned on and off throughout. X was able to give me a multicam clip from all of these, and it was perfect. I dread the thought of doing that on 7.

[Herb Sevush] “I like the ability to “send” to Motion so there’s Legacy over X again”

I’m pretty sure you’re not alone in wanting this.

[Herb Sevush] “What you can’t see is simply a testament to your limitations and lack of vision.”

Excuse you? Limitations… lack of vision… how exactly would you expect to have even the slightest clue as to either of those? I had a dog in the races for FCP7, I’d been using it since 4HD, and had become incredibly fast with it. I was also well aware of how suffocating it’s limitations could be.

I see plenty of people every day without any of the valid reasons you described to stick with 7. They’re always complaining about “Oh this DSLR footage is taking forever” and “Why does it always take five hours to render.” I’m in a school environment at the moment, and these students have a complete freedom of choice in what to edit in, but even in a school environment, they don’t want to learn anything new. They don’t have the years of experience, investments in infrastructure, etc, that keep you there. Most of them took 1-2 classes two years ago, barely passed them, and now trudge away in 7 with sloppy sequences, spread across multiple drives. Their only reason not for switching is that they “know” 7, which in all honesty they don’t. They know how to stumble around 7 endlessly until something finally works.

My hobby for the last three years has been to take advantage of my time back in school by learning as much as I could. I’m constantly on Lynda.com, Ripple Training, and lately Curious Turtle (Mocha training). I’ve tried to gain a working knowledge of a wide variety of programs, which has helped me to always choose the right one for each job. It’s allowed me to be nimble with software, and not stuck to the whims of a company that might kill your breadwinner (Apple) or hold your software hostage (Adobe). Yet I’m constantly surrounded by people that say “I want to learn it, but I don’t have time right now.” Then you see them at a bar the next night. People don’t seem to realize that they can’t simply rest on the knowledge they already have and remain competitive.

Look Herb, you’ve got your reasons for sticking with 7, I understand that. That doesn’t give you any right to pretend that you know about my limitations or vision. Frankly it’s insulting. An apology or explanation of why I don’t deserve one is in order.

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Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 – wasting away on my SSD.
I just can’t quit X.
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[Michael Gissing]

Ten points for enthusiasm Nicholas. Obviously not everyone shares that keenness or perhaps your workflow. The recent death of renowned editor Gerry Hambling marked the last of the editors that were cutting big budget features on a Moviola. Expect Legacy to be not only popular but also rather useful for at least a while longer.

So as much as you might be keen to move us all on, allow working tools that suit people and specific workflows to be used without value judgements that somehow not embracing FCPX is a personal failure. Our resident enthusiast Bill does at least cut that much slack.

[Herb Sevush]

[Nicholas Zimmerman] “That doesn’t give you any right to pretend that you know about my limitations or vision. Frankly it’s insulting. An apology or explanation of why I don’t deserve one is in order.”

While I won’t offer an apology I will happily supply the explanation.

Below are 2 quotes from your original posting

[Nicholas Zimmerman] I honestly can’t see any reason to stick with Legacy other than an aversion to change.

[Nicholas Zimmerman] It just doesn’t make any sense to me economically that anyone would stay in FCP7 this long.

Those are rather grand and sweeping statements. Anyone who still uses Legacy does it because he has an aversion to change and can’t “see” their own economic self interest. You couldn’t “see” any reason why even a single person would logically stay with Legacy. That’s what the word “anyone” connotes in that sentence. When I then detailed why it was perfectly logical for me to stay with Legacy I then questioned your rather faulty eyesight, your limitations in not seeing how your statement was false, at least in my case.

I was using the word vision in the narrowest sense, I’m not responsible for your taking it in the larger sense – in other words I wasn’t implying that you lacked artistic vision, I was simply saying that you were blind, as far as your arguments go. If you had said you couldn’t understand why “many people” or even “most people” stuck with Legacy I would have silently agreed with you and posted nothing at all.

If you don’t like my response I suggest you choose your words more carefully. That and a little humility would go a long way.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Nicholas Zimmerman]

[Nicholas Zimmerman] “I honestly can’t see any”

[Nicholas Zimmerman] “It just doesn’t make any sense to me“

Both were personal statements. What I see every day, the people that I deal with, only stick with 7 because they know it and aren’t willing to learn a new system. I understand that there are exceptions to this, you being one of them. These are students, and if they’re already this complacent, I fear for their futures. Knowing that the software you use is EOL should scare the bageezus out of anyone, and it seems irresponsible to not at least learn something that has a future of use ahead of it, be it MC, Premiere, or X. At this point the number of 7 editors is only shrinking by the day.

Knowing what I know, with the experiences that I’ve had, I feel sticking with 7 is, for the most part, a terrible idea. The entire reason for starting this was because the naming of the forums is both out of date, and demeaning to FCPX. Whether or not anyone likes it, FCPX is the current version of Final Cut Pro, and has been for almost two years. Yet when somebody posts anything about the living FCP in the FCP forum, they are told to go elsewhere. I get that a lot of people are still upset about X, but that doesn’t change that it is the modern Final Cut Pro, and that 7 is EOL.

This type of thing only continues the stigma that grew from FCPX’s awful launch. It’s been almost two years, and for such a young program, FCPX has matured by leaps and bounds. Even if they switched the names to Apple Final Cut Pro 1-7 and Apple Final Cut Pro X, that would be enough. But the current setup of “This is for Apple Final Cut Pro” and “This is for Apple FCPX Techniques” just doesn’t seem right to me.

We live in an industry that changes very rapidly. Who knows if Avid will survive the decade, let alone the next 2 years. Will Adobe flounder under the weight of their Creative Cloud debacle? What will Apple unveil tomorrow, will it be the end of the “real” Mac Pro? We don’t know these answers. No matter what happens we’ll still have to put food on the table, which means we’ll have to adapt.

Adaptation and constant learning should be celebrated merits among us.

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Avid MC, PPro CS6, FCP7 – wasting away on my SSD.
I just can’t quit X.
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