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shooting 1080pa vs 720p
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[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] “But shooting at 1080 at 24pa, will that give you a better film look than say 720p, after I do a 2:3:2:3 pulldown in fcp?”
The “film look” will be identical, but the 1080 footage will be sharper with less compression.(and take up 2x as much space on the hard disk)
[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] “I simply dont want to sacrafice the fluidity of 24p (native) so I can earn extra pixels, but if you can have both, great, thats my goal,”
Then you should be thrilled with 1080/24pA, because that’s what you get.
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[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] ”
– closer look to film.”
Not true.[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] “- more of the dv blur, even after the 2:3:2:3 pulldown, so looks less like film.”
Not true.
The rest of your conclusions are accurate, but I don’t know where you’re getting this part from. 1080/24pA (after pulldown removal) looks and moves and feels exactly like 720/24pN, except it’s larger, sharper, and less compressed.
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Hey Clint, I would go this week to see the film. I don’t think it will be in theaters that long. Just go to Fandango.com and type the name of the film in and search your area. From what I read it was launching into 2500 theaters. but you may need to drive a ways if you live some place small.
It was fun to see what it looks like on the big screen for those people who are hopping to have their movies transfered to film and projected.
-Lars
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I saw the film, if you are just reading this thread Lars posted a great film to watch, well, not so great.
Its a pg halooween pre-teen film, but! It was shot on the hvx-200 at 720p, and is now in 2500 theatres, doesnt that give hope to so many! It did to me, thanks Lars.
I did see the ariels shot at 1080pa, and they looked incredible, film, film, film it looked like.
Though, the 720p part throught the feature, it did look like film, but, sometimes it didnt.
The background shadows, when low lit, were pixelated, ohh, and also the faces, very pixelated Im surprised it got theatrical distribution, but am pleasantly surprised, thats a good thing. Its cool to know that things like that can slide from distributors.
I recommend that everyone sees this who is going to be shooting on that camera and plans on blowing up to 35mm.
I am just wondering, did they add grain to the original master, and then the additional coat from the 35mm print, or they just leaved it ungrained, and let the 35mm print do the job.
Why didnt they just shoot the whole thing at 1080pa instead of 720p if the 1080pa looked so much better?
Clint Nitkiewicz Hern
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[Barry Green] “1080/24pA (after pulldown removal) looks and moves and feels exactly like 720/24pN, except it’s larger, sharper, and less compressed.”
It’s really just as compressed.
In DVCPro HD, 720P60 and 1080i30 are both compressed at a data rate 100mbps. An uncompressed frame of 720 is around 1 million pixels, 60 times a second and uncompressed frame of 1080 is around 2 million pixels, 30 times a second. So 720P60 and 1080i30 are roughly the same number of pixels per second, compressed to 100mbps. 720 24PN simply records fewer frames to the card but at the same data rate per frame as 60P.
Confusing enough for you? It makes my ears bleed just a little writing this!
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog -
[Arniepix] “It’s really just as compressed.”
In theory, sure. But in reality, in an HVX200? Not at all. 1080 ends up being much less compressed, and the visual improvement is significant.
It’s true that the DCT compression ratio is 6.7 for both, but the difference is that the HVX is generating only about 800 lines of vertical resolution — enough to saturate the 720p frame, but leaving a lot of underutilized space in the full 1080p frame. DV/DVCPRO50/DVCPRO-HD compression is smart enough to take advantage of leftover bits from underutilized compression blocks and move them to where they’re most needed. So with 800 lines of detail stretched across 1080 lines of frame size, that leaves a significant portion of underutilization, which gets repurposed to make the overall image look better.
The reality is that 1080 shows less macroblocking and less mosquito noise than 720 does. It gives the appearance of being less compressed, while simultaneously being more detailed. 1080/24p and 1080/25p and 1080/30p are better than 720/24p, 720/25p and 720/30p in all ways (except file size).
Now, 720/60p vs. 1080/60i, sure, 720’s better for that. But at equivalent progressive frame rate, the HVX just looks notably better in 1080 than it does in 720.
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[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] “Why didnt they just shoot the whole thing at 1080pa instead of 720p if the 1080pa looked so much better?”
No good answer for that. Either they’re laboring under the same infuriating misconceptions that so many people are (thinking it’s really a 720p camera that uprezzes to 1080, which is false) or their post house recommended the workflow (I’ve heard post houses who use FCP or Avid prefer 720pN because there’s no pulldown removal to deal with) or, they simply wanted to take advantage of the space savings.
If properly shot, 720p should look fantastic on the big screen. I’ve seen standard-def features like “November” that looked just fine, and 720p has twice as many pixels and much sharper imagery. But 1080’s even better. If you care about your image, and want the very best the camera can deliver especially for the big screen, that’s 1080/24pA mode.
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Here is a thread on the red rock micro site from one of the guys that made the film. He talks about why they shot 720. This thread is 3 pages long so you will have to go through it.
https://www.redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3619
-Lars
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I dont know if you guys have tried opening a .MXF File lately but I can open them in Quicktime and Transcode them to 720p24 whatever they are, absolutely the same way Final Cut Will just not all the tools you need to adjust metadata upon injest, and all the great stuff you need to organize your mess of P2 clips.
I looked in my Library/Quicktime/ folder and I have a file called MXFimporter.component that P2CMS installed for me. Never have I been able to see MXF in preview… FCP6 does not install it. Panasonic gives it to you!!
I hadn’t noticed until a week ago when I was backing up my laptop’s codecs, then I tried opening a .MXF in Quicktime and what do ya know? I can export too?!
Seriously try P2CMS, free from Panasonic and then try a .MXF in Quicktime. You dont even have to use the program… just the codec, right click on a MXF and open in Quicktime, then get info and change them all for good!! Export too!
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