Sell out? Or stick to my principals and lose my modest salary and benefits?

[Malcolm Matusky]

Amend the contract (in pen) sign it, hand it in, if they don’t accept it let them fire you, then you have a legal case. Don’t just walk, if you quit you have no legal standing. A friend of mine had the same deal years ago when his music recording company was bought, he was an engineer and did recording on is own time and in his own studio, the contract he signed was a very unfair blanket agreement which would enable his employer to “own” all his work, even if it was done at home on his own gear, you are getting the same crap deal.

Attorneys are assholes when it comes to dealing with creative people, they don’t get it and they don’t care. They know most creative people will easily cave and sign any agreement put in front of them and will give up. So what to do? Do you really want to work for a company that is going to screw you? I would not.

My friend did not sign the agreement and it took them two years to finally “fire” him, business slumped, it had nothing to do with the contract.

You have every right to “negotiate” any contract, if the other party has a take it or leave it attitude, walk, that means they are screwing you, dont’ care about screwing you and if you roll over easily, will screw you in the future about something else, like reducing your salary and benefits because the new owners kid wants to go to filmschool or he needs a new corporate jet, or they just want 350 times the average salary in the company, not just the 250 times they are now getting…. dosen’t really matter what the reason is, does it?

M

Malcolm

[Michael Mahoney jr.]

Wow, I really appreciate all of the feedback I am receiving. Thank you so much, and please, keep it up. This issue is kindof a big deal.

I’d type a novel if I had the time, but let me shorten my thoughts into some specific points that address things you folks have mentioned.

1: This is an ugly and complicated issue. But there isn’t any silly back story or any bad blood between myself and anyone in the company. It’s just an issue of a new, much larger owner being unwilling to make a very reasonable, very minor modification their generic agreement.

2: I did not resign, and they did not fire me. A required form was not turned in on time – that is all. I will be at work on Monday, ready for a resolution. But I am NOT signing that form without modifications.

3. Competition: I have no interest in working for any competitor, or competing with my employer in any way. I simply want to create content in my free time, without fear of them claiming ownership.

4. Salary: They can’t hold my salary over my head. We live a very simple, very frugal life. Except for finding cheaper living arrangements – losing my salary won’t impact our lives very much. Grinner mentions that typically someone receives a bump in salary, a bonus, or some other form of compensation (a Consideration) for signing away rights like this. So far this has not been the case. I am in the middle of a huge project for the new ownership, and they want to renegotiating the terms of my employment for some reason. They took 5 vacation days from me, want me to sign away my rights to my work – and they refuse to have a salary discussion.

They need me more than I need them. I will walk.

5. Consideration: Nick, that’s what you receive in return for signing a contract, a “Consideration.” Unfortunately, and as Nick mentioned, in the US, most employment is an “at will” status. So they can actually fire me for any reason, any time they feel like it. And they CAN bring me a new agreement to sign – and my Consideration for signing (what I get in return) is to keep my job. Horrible, but true.

6. Polarized Thinking: Cory, I largely agree with what you have typed. Unfortunately, you sandwiched it between a couple of strong opinions about the way I think. But let’s put that aside – it’s obvious there is a lot of emotion connected to this issue for me, and that emotion probably came through in my post.

Yes, I may be slightly polarized in my thinking. However – I did not draw the line in the sand. They did. It’s like this.

Them: “Wow, we’re really happy with what you’re doing, so we’re going to give you some huge projects to work on. As a matter of fact, we’re so happy with you, we’d like to put the brakes on that huge project and renegotiate the terms of your employment. How’s about we take away 5 vacation days, double your health insurance costs and have creative control over anything you make? Oh, and we refuse to address the salary that’s been unchanged for four years (even though your job has expanded ten-fold since then.)

They drew the line in the sand (and created the polarization) and are trying to make me step over it. I refuse.

7. Mads Jorgensen: You make a valid point. The executives for the company are in a completely different State from us, and they may not fully appreciate, or even have knowledge of the messy situation that local management and HR have caused.

Being that we are a huge publicly traded company – the Legal Dept and the Head of Human Resources are both going to be looking for that very important form – and they’re going to want to know why it isn’t turned in. Hopefully, when the actual decision makers realize my artistic intentions, we can make a simple change to the agreement and move on with our lives.

8: Chris and John: I will not sign this legal document knowing full well that I intend to break it. Or just go blindly along thinking “they won’t touch my stuff. They don’t care.”

How can you guys think like this? Don’t you understand what is going on here?

It doesn’t matter if what I create is “worth” anything – it is mine.

When I shoot a documentary this spring about rebuilding my bicycle for a long road trip – this agreement states that they could own my documentary if they wanted to. This is unreasonable and I CANNOT agree to it.

Here’s a hypothetical example that might be easier for people to understand:
– Say I work for Guitar Center as a photographer, and I get paid to take photos of guitars for their catalog and/or website.
– The Invention Assignment Agreement reads that any photos I take or media I create that “relate to the company’s current or contemplated business” belong to them.
– What is the current or contemplated business of Guitar Center? Too vague. That could include anything related music – live music, recording, instruments and accessories, rock and roll, music education, etc.
– Any photos I take of guitars now belong to them. Any photos I take of my personal guitars now belong to them. I shoot photos of my friend’s band – those shots belong to the company.

That cool vintage guitar blog I was running – damn, that now belongs to them too.
It doesn’t matter if what I create is “worth” anything – it is mine.

Again, unless I am competing with them in any way, like having my documentary sponsored by a competitor – or feature/promote/sell in any way bicycle products, I should be free to create whatever I want related to bicycles and cycling.

Verbally, they assure me that I am free to do what I please. But they refuse to put it in writing.

Conclusion:
I appreciate everyone’s feedback, and your words. Keep ’em coming. I’ll go into work on Monday with the intention of resolving this issue. I have not quit, and they have not fired me. Let’s sit, wait, and see what happens. I’ll keep you posted.

Please, continue to discuss. This issue won’t be over for some time, and I’ll keep updating the thread.

Michael.

[Nick Griffin]

[Michael Mahoney Jr.] “they CAN bring me a new agreement to sign – and my Consideration for signing (what I get in return) is to keep my job.”

I’m not sure that is true. At least it wasn’t a few years back when my wife was going through agreeing to a non-compete contract that her company wanted her to sign more than a year after she had been working for them. Consideration isn’t not taking something away.

Michael, your situation also reminds me about something I went through 8 years ago with one of the world’s largest chemical companies. (Trust me, you’d recognize the name.) After two very successful meetings which established that we were extremely qualified to handle projects for one of their divisions, they provided their standard vendor agreement and I showed them my rates. They we SHOCKED that we wanted twice as much per hour as other vendors doing similar work. I pointed out that we could do with two or three people what the other guys were doing with ten people, each being paid at their approved rate ceiling. They, being one of the world’s largest corporations, couldn’t do the math of 2 times 2X is less than 10 times 1x, and insisted that we agree to their rate. The guy who brought me in even pulled me aside and whispered, “Use their rate and just tell them that everything took twice as long.”

This then came down to a moral decision for me. Our timesheet system is the basis on how we charge most of our clients. How could I deliberately game the system for one client? It’s kind of like the best reason to be honest with everyone — those who tell the truth have so much less to remember than those with a different lie for each situation. Combine that with the fact that their contract said that they could pop into our business at any time, without advance notice, to audit our business records and I said, “Screw it. Honesty is the best policy” and turned down their business.

So I can relate to you not wanting to sign an agreement that you intend to ignore. So do what was discussed earlier and stall until you have to sign and then turn in the agreement with the objectionable clause stricken or amended to say something to the effect of “work created during standard business hours.” Then you can have the fight, if necessary.

I still think that finding a way to do the work as a freelance outsider might be the best way to go, but then I’ve been self employed since I was 25.

BTW –
Just in case you didn’t read the notice at the top of this forum, everything on the net, including the COW, IS indexed by the search engines and any HR rep clever enough to Google “Michael Mahoney Jr.” will find this thread at position #6 (or higher). Another good reason to make honesty the best policy.

[Chris Blair]

“Michael Mahoney Jr wrote: Chris and John: I will not sign this legal document knowing full well that I intend to break it. Or just go blindly along thinking “they won’t touch my stuff. They don’t care.”

How can you guys think like this? Don’t you understand what is going on here?”

I think we do. What is going on is a company trying to protect it’s proprietary products and/or brand. Companies do it every day. Non-compete contracts are required by many companies as a condition of employment.

I can’t speak for John, but what I’m saying is if your videos and creative work truly don’t compete with their products nor do they do them any harm, there is virtually no chance they will percieve that you’ve violated that contract. Further…they likely don’t have the time or inclination to police such activities. It’s just a way for a company to protect it’s interests and insure that employees don’t take the company’s products, techniques and technology and use them for their own gain.

So what I’m saying is if what you do on your own time truly doesn’t harm or compete with your employer, then sign the agreement and do your other projects under the understanding that you’re NOT competing with or harming your employer in any way. That’s not deceptive, that’s not morally wrong. Since their contract language is incredibly vague, you can in good conscience move forward under the understanding that what you’re doing doesn’t violate that contract. End of story.

Bottom line…nothing will ever come of this agreement if you sign it and in my experience, you’re making a much bigger deal about it than it deserves. This isn’t a record company taking your music and compositions and selling them as their own, it’s a company looking out for the products, reputation and good will it’s built for itself over time. You’d do the same to protect yourself if the shoe was on the other foot.

Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com
Read our blog http://www.videomi.com/blog

[Neil Hurwitz]

Two things jump out at me here.

1st: No one here, myself included is an Attorney licensed to practice
in your state, so all their advice is worthless.
Before you walk out on your salary and benefits
the proper thing to do is to consult with one.
You say “Potentially sign away rights” so it is clear to me that
you yourself are not sure what this agreement means.
Get a good attorney to clarify this for you.
You also used the word “WE” so I assume you have a family
and risk losing yours and their benefits, I assume you mean
Medical Insurance, better get a reality check on what that costs
to buy on your own. If you have a wife and two kids get ready to spend between 12,000.00 and 16,000.00

2nd: In todays job market never ever believe that you are worth
more to them then they are to you. They can replace you in a heartbeat, I doubt you can find another position with benefits
as quickly

I gotta say I think it is reprehensible for some here to say walk
without getting real legal advice (some have, Kudos to them)
They are not in your shoes and will not suffer any consequences
so it’s real easy for them to pontificate and take the high ground
but you would be surprised at how fast their thinking would change
if it was their livelihood on the block

Neil Hurwitz

[Mark Suszko]

As my mom never misses a chance to point out, I never became a lawyer.

That said, the worst-case version of this form sounds like most judges would throw it out as too broad to be enforced.

Try signing it, but lining-out and initialing the objectionable parts aboutmyour off-hours work. If nothing else, it runs the clock out a little longer on the play.

I refer you as well to my longer answer on the Corporate Video version of this thread. Understand the underlying needs they have, and work to find a win-win that suits you both.

[Bob Cole]

[Chris Blair] “Bottom line…nothing will ever come of this agreement if you sign it and in my experience, you’re making a much bigger deal about it than it deserves.”

I agree with Chris. This contract is not really about you and your video activity. The company is rightly concerned that employees with knowledge and expertise related to the core business of the company will take that information somewhere else.

[Michael Mahoney jr.]

Well, it’s done. I was let go about two weeks ago for budget reasons.

Nearly a year after I signed away my dignity to keep my job, they took it all away.

I felt like such a loser after signing that form. A corporate nobody. A sell out. A compromised man.

And for what? When the share-holders asked about the inflated Marketing budget, the video department was the first item eliminated from the spreadsheet.

The CEO just got approved for a 300K bonus, but they’ll save 35K on Marketing by kicking their video producer to the curb.

So, I’m officially unemployed.

Thanks for all of the support from the COW community. I am trying to go freelance now (supplemented w/ a part-time job anywhere…)

Here’s a link to one of my favorite creations, this style of event coverage is really what I love to do. It is incomplete because of various corporate issues:
https://youtu.be/BfaeMyUufw8?hd=1

Anybody in the Cleveland, Ohio area need help with anything? Send any jobs my way, even internships – I need to get my face out there.

Thanks,
Mike

Some contents or functionalities here are not available due to your cookie preferences!

This happens because the functionality/content marked as “Google Youtube” uses cookies that you choosed to keep disabled. In order to view this content or use this functionality, please enable cookies: click here to open your cookie preferences.

[Bob Cole]

[Michael Mahoney Jr.] “Anybody in the Cleveland, Ohio area need help with anything? Send any jobs my way, even internships – I need to get my face out there.”

How do we get in touch with you? I have a freelance lead for you.

Bob C bob “at” r c o l e “dot” c o m

[Michael Mahoney jr.]

Bob! Thanks for the speedy reply, and thank you VERY MUCH for asking for my contact information – I should have included it in my post.

w.mahoney.jr@gmail.com