Rendering Graphics in FCP

[Rocco Rocco]

Hm. I ran a few tests to see. I’m putting it out there and may be slammed for faulty tests or some other reason, but the following seems logical to me. But I could be wrong about this, and welcome debate: (I am no scientist)

Media: 5 seconds of motion graphics footage that originated in Combustion (exported at 640 x 480 Animation Codec, 29.97, square px.)

Then in FCP, I placed the media into a timeline and exported with the following settings:

Animation timeline. Exported as Quicktime Movie: 83.3MB (Control)
DV NTSC timeline. Exported as Quicktime Movie: 18.2MB (Control)

Animation timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 56.5MB (DOES NOT NEED RENDERING)

DV NTSC Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 56.5MB UNRENDERED BEFORE EXPORT
DV NTSC Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 65.7MB RENDERED BEFORE EXPORT

8 bit Uncompressed Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 56.5MB UNRENDERED BEFORE EXPORT
8 bit Uncompressed Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 51.2MB RENDERED BEFORE EXPORT

Apple Intermediate Codec 10% Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 56.5MB UNRENDERED BEFORE EXPORT
Apple Intermediate Codec 10% Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 64.5MB RENDERED BEFORE EXPORT

Sorenson 3 Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 56.5MB UNRENDERED BEFORE EXPORT
Sorenson 3 Timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 57.8 RENDERED BEFORE EXPORT

So it would seem that the timeline settings DO influence the Quicktime Conversion – but only if you render before exporting. But if you remove all render files prior to exporting using QT conversion, it looks like the sequence settings are ignored. If they weren’t then all of the “UNRENDERED BEFORE EXPORT” results would NOT be the same. Instead. they’re all 56.5MB.

In short: Remove render files and you can export using QT conversion and the sequence settings codec so not matter. this is differnent from what Shane is saying, so I dunno what to think now.

One thing does perpllex me, however: Why is “Animation timeline. Exported as Quicktime Movie: 83.3MB” when “Animation timeline. Exported via Quicktime Conversion using Animation Codec: 56.5MB?

[Steve Braker]

Wow, Rocco, you are dedicated!

I’m trying to wrap my brain around all those numbers. It seems pretty clear… In fact it seems very clear.

I had been thinking of (but not doing) another kind of test involving serious detail, such as a CG (or camera image) field of halftone dots receding into the distance. You would know immediately on opening the results whether they had seen DV or other compression.

I’m pretty sure at this point that a reference movie doesn;t get around recompression. The manual sez so, Shane sez so, and it kind of just makes sense. But that sould also be tested with the above. Afraid I don’t have time for testing for a while…

As for the difference between QT Movie and QT Conversion… I’m pretty sure QT Movies always include all audio at full quality. So even if you didn’t have any audio it may have saved a couple of tracks of silence with the QT Movie – which would take up just as much space as any other tracks ’cause they’re uncompressed.

I would really like this stuff to be True. But I definitely don’t want to Fake It.

[Rafael Amador]

Steve.
I would recommend you set (for rendering) your time-line in 8b Unc rather than in Animation. like that you keep in the YCbCr world, the same used in MPG2. You can have a look too to Sheer codec. Top quality, and smaller files than any other codec.
Cheers,
Rafael

[Steven Washer]

Rafael,

Thanks! It’s quite intersting, this series of observations we’ve been following. Now that I’m aware of the various permutations available from within and without the timeline settings, I’ve been condusting some real-world experiments. The last step of the process, however, is still causing problems with artifacting at the MPEG-2 level. I’m getting some tearing of the text and smearing of the reds within the MPEG-2 file, even when outputting from a 10 bit uncompressed timeline that has been rendered. The same happens when rendering that file into an MPEG-2 file using QT Pro from the original rendered After Effects file rendered in the animation codec. I’m going to try rendering that original AE file in 8 bit uncompressed and see if the resultant MPEG-2 file gives me a reduced amount of tearing.

Steve

[Steven Washer]

It didn’t work very well. While the 8-bit uncompressed file right out of AE looks pristine, as soon as it is droppped into DVD Studio Pro as an .mov file or pre-renderd as an MPEG-2 file, you see some tearing of the outlines around the text and a bit of tearing around the outlines of the company logo. In fact, the look is practically identical with both versions. This leads me to wonder if DVD Studio Pro has changable timeline settings itself as does FCP, but I can’t find any in the program and of course this isn’t a DVD Studio Pro forum. But these programs are all so interrelated now…

Steve

[Ron James]

I’ve also long-doubted the claims that FCP ignores timeline settings and/or render files. People have been saying this here and there, but I’ve never seen it proven.

I didn’t go through all the numbers (had a long week and can’t focus) but I’m not sure if file size is the best indicator? I’m guessing the best method might be a resolution chart to see compression artifacts for comparison.

Does this make any sense, or am I just burned out?

[Ron James]

I’d use Compressor to do the encoding. I find I have to do a lot of tweaking when going to MPEG-2, depending on the material, and Compressor has these tools readily available.

[Steve Braker]

I agree that a “compression test” (take one plug out at a time, now!) would be a great way to hone in on this. I’m sure I’ll be doing it in a week if nobody has yet.

[Ron James]

These would definitely be interesting questions to bring up at User Group meetings, especially when anyone from the Final Cut Pro team is present.

[Steven Washer]

I’ve got a FCP users group meeting on the 13th. This will get onto the agenda for sure and I’ll report back.

Steve