RED 4K to Avid 1080 workflow

[Michael Hancock]

[Nick Ravich] “*I realize my small prod house is running 7.0.2 Media Composer, pre-subscription. Looks like latest level is 8. Wondering what I’m missing out on in terms of transcode quality/codecs/color correcting?”

New in Media Composer 8.3 (look for the “What’s new Guide v8.x” links).

Quick overview of MC v8.x over MC7:
1. LUT options on the source side, better AMA management, better mixing of frame rates.
2. Support for greater than HD video (2K, 4K, etc…). DNxHR codec for +HD material.
3. Background Render/Transcode/Consolidate. This might be a big help for you.
4. New/better project window.
5. Search for markers (this was huge for me).
6. Image cache for thumbnails (great if you use thumbnail view).
7. Quick Filter in project window (helpful to find bins in big projects)
8. Change the color space you’re viewing in (Rec709, RGB, etc…)

Personally, I like MC8.3.1. It’s been solid for me and the improvements have been great. I work with a ton of footage shot in LogC, so being able to apply a LUT on the source side, or as an effect on the timeline, is fantastic. And the marker searching is fantastic. Those were reason enough for me to upgrade.

[Nick Ravich] “*Also, started ingesting footage in MC 7 for 4 hour long series that we won’t finish/CC until a year from now. Typical work flow is AMA/consolidate except in cases – like RED or HDSLR footage – where codecs not native and then I transcode. Wondering if I’m losing anything picture/color wise by not upping the ante to MC 8 now for the ingest?”

Nope. Unless you have +HD footage you want to keep in its native resolution. Otherwise, what you’re doing sounds fine.

[Nick Ravich] “*Really lost on Media Composer and color bit. Now that there’s more and more 10 bit color option cameras, really unclear to me if MC is preserving the 10 bit color. Color bit doesn’t seem to be an option in bin columns. And project settings don’t list color bit either, just color space. FYI – Hope editorially lock in MC, but color correct in Resolve. “

If your footage is 8-bit and you consolidate it, it’s rewrapped as MXF media and stays 8-bit. If it’s 10-bit and you consolidate it, it should stay 10-bit. If it’s 10-bit and you transcode it, pick a resolution with “x” at the end (220x, 175x, etc…). The x denotes 10-bit. Also, go to your render settings and you may want to render everything to a 10-bit codec. But if you’re going to relink and send to a color, it shouldn’t really matter, especially if they’re going to relink to the camera originals. And I think Resolve calculates everything in 32-bit float, so that’s a great way to go. Your colorist can spit out 10-bit deliverables from there to maintain the highest quality.

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Michael Hancock
Editor

[Nick Ravich]

Glad we connected Michael. Thanks for all the info.

Agreed MC8 has some nice additions. Esp that source side LUT.

Understood about MC7 vs MC8 ingest issues. So this new DNxHR codec is specifically for 2K & 4K frame sizes, ie above and beyond 1080?

Understood about maintaining 10 bit. Tho irritating AVID has no way of denoting what is or isn’t 10 bit.

I realize I need to get my head straight on the MC-Resolve coloring workflow. Last finish process we went thru I delivered MC sequences and media in final HD codecs; onliner color corrected mainly in MC, and worked in Resolve on a couple of isolated moments. I think he outputted ProRes files out of Avid, brought them into Resolve, then outputted out of Resolve back into MC. No doubt cumbersome process, where we proly lost finer color grading potential of Resolve in all those translations.

Nick.

Nick.

[Michael Phillips]

If you’re doing an offline proxy transcode and edit, keep in mind you don’t need a full debayer (defaults to that) when transcoding. Usually whatever debayer just above your project size will do fine for offline. But for DNxHD36 I have done 1/4 debayer from 4K files and it was fine for editing. I recently did 1/8th from 6K sources and that was too. It’s a hell of a lot faster.

Michael

[Eric Santiago]

Not sure if it was mentioned but friends dont let friends shoot 1080 with a RED 🙂

I can tell you that with my Scarlet anything lower than 3K is noticeable in quality compared to 4K and up.

Maybe when you scale it down to 1080 it would be fine but Ive done enough 1K/2kWS/2KFULL shoots that the EPIC is always on the back of my mind (that shoots 4K and above with HFR).

So honestly shooting lower than 4K is not the best with the RED IMHO.

[Nick Ravich]

Thanks Eric.
Love it – friends don’t let friends shoot 1080 with a RED.
Will definitely keep in mind.
NIck.

[Nick Ravich]

Thanks Michael.
Just had to google “debabyer”.
Basically a color space convertor?
Presumably I should work in an RGB Avid project when working with RED material? And YCBR for basically all else?
Nick.

[Michael Phillips]

No need to work RGB, Media Composer will do an RGB 12bit conversion to YUV 8 bit if going to DNXHD 36. Part of the debayering process based on the “similar to J2K” encoding used (not the same as) is the ability to decode lesser resolutions directly from the file. This can speed up the decode process. When doing a final conform and finish for example you will want to use either a full or 1/2 depending on final resolution of timeline.

Another consideration for not shooting RED at 1080 is that the sensor is windowed resulting in more depth of field when compared to shooting at higher resolution (less depth, or shallower depth of field). This is a creative choice and can be used to your advantage either way, but something to be mindful of if matching shots.

Michael

[Eric Santiago]

Uggh funny how this worked out.

I havent had to work in Avid for weeks due other projects and now Im asked to check into something with future projects.

Sorry if this is thread jacking but maybe itll help some of us.

Did some basic changes in RCX (ISO, FLUT, etc..) as well as sycned TC audio.

For some reason Avid MC 8.3.1 wont see the updates Ive done even after saving the RMD.

I ran into this years ago with some color updates and I dont remember what I did to fix.

The audio thing puzzles me more.

I guess Id have to AAF out of RCX instead.

Again sorry for post disruption 🙂

[Michael Phillips]

I assume you selected all the clips and reselected the RMD from the source side setting?

Michael

[Eric Santiago]

Yes and even Reloaded the RMDs to see the results.

This only occurs with Avid.

THe last time I fixed this was to start a new project and use AMA again.

Basically starts a fresh batch.

It will not refresh as well as FCPX and Premiere.

Mind you those two have been finicky with same workflow and just as maddening but the audio at least comes in perfect every time.