Recipes for “film look” for EX-3?

[Tom Laughlin]

Let me know the exact dates, when, where, how many days, gear you need, and I’ll see what I can coordinate. Please email me at tomyboy342000@yahoo.com and have a great week.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Salt Lake City, UT
FCP7/Sony EX-3/Mac Quad-Core Intel

[Tom Laughlin]

So, when I’m shoot using the EX-3, the “SP Mode”, here at my work is used to fit more footage on to a card, we can shoot more HDV on a card, obviously, than Full HD. When I drag the video into a FCP Time-line, this is what I get:

So it looks like the default is HDV 60i. So, is this basically good to go for editing, or so I need to change the codec on the timeline to another one, since it was shot in HDV (SP Mode) FCP auto-detects the format, so in the past, I’ve just left it alone, and all is well, but does one need to change to an EX-flavored codec? In other words, a codec like from the other codec listed below?

And what does changing the codec do to the codec, enhance it or maintain it, or it is the same thing? In other words, why change it? Pros or cons? Or does it matter in the end, since it’s HDV?

Also, when I change drag it into the time-line, it shows the frame-rate at 29.97, but we shot it 60i, does this matter? FCP seems to do it’s auto-adjustments and auto-defaults upon the media being imported and read, so I usually don’t mess with those things a whole lot, and in the end our output is for the web, so I’m not worried about that, it’s more of an editor staying true to upholding integral quality; visible and non-visible. Like if I shot with the DVX-100, I’d capture the video as how I shot it, let FCP auto-detect the raw video, and edit, I’d never ever upres it or change the time-line codec or frame-rate for any reasons, never thought there would be a need. Why change the time-line codec from DV (shot in DV) to an Apple Pro Ress Time-line? I saw some do that in film school, never made much sense…

Thanks,

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Salt Lake City, UT
FCP7/Sony EX-3/Mac Quad-Core Intel

[Craig Seeman]

This doesn’t really have to do with film look. This is basic codec understanding.
HDV is CBR 25mbps. XDCAM EX is VBR 35mbps. The latter is less likely to break (show artifacts) due to motion content.

NTSC compatible frame rates are 29.97 frames which is 59.94 fields. People call them 30 or 60 are usually just rounding the numbers.

I can’t think of many reasons to use HDV compatibility mode on EX. The few reasons are:
Integrate into a project already started in HDV.
Using HDV LIVE out of firewire where HDMI or HD-SDI isn’t possible (for example when live streaming).

If you want film motion you’d shoot 23.98 frames which people round to 24 when shooting video (in film it is actually 24).

[Tom Laughlin] “So, when I’m shoot using the EX-3, the “SP Mode”, here at my work is used to fit more footage on to a card, we can shoot more HDV on a card, obviously, than Full HD.”

I can’t fathom the logic to this. Buy more cards. Offload the cards. I can’t ever see the logic to throwing out quality.

[Tom Laughlin]

Yea, I know this doesn’t have anything to do with “film look”, I just didn’t want to have to start a new post. It was like, ok now that I’ve got my question answered, let me ask one more quick one, within the same post, so. No worries, thanks!

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Salt Lake City, UT
FCP7/Sony EX-3/Mac Quad-Core Intel

[Tom Laughlin]

Craig, I’m not defending those at NAB last year that were doing workshops or discussions on this, but a friend of mine who went to NAB last year, said he went to a panel about codecs and resolution, and he said that the panelists, or a few of them had mentioned that there still was some value in HDV, 1440×1080, and that although not full 1080p, it was still of some worth in still using it today. I’ve seen stuff shot in SP mode and shown on a HD monitor, and it doesn’t look that different from 1080p, obviously there’s a lot of variables to this, and all. But I think 1080p shooting, is way better. But the point at NAB was that they were saying that it still has value and shouldn’t be thrown out of the resolution ring. Understanding also that there are many who say, once you go 1080p, why go back? I guess part of it, is that the cards hold more minutes, 160 minutes on a card, in SP mode, and it looks fantastic on the web and on DVD. But yes, it doesn’t make sense to shoot HDV, when you have the ability to shoot Full HD, so I take your points perfectly.

So, if I’m shooting in CBR (HDV) 25Mbps on the EX-3 in SP mode, and Final Cut imports it, and it defaults the timeline at HDV 60i, should I ‘manaully’ change the Time-line Settings to the EX 35 VBR Mbps setting? Will this matter, or should this always be done this way. We shoot mostly talking heads and b-roll, not a lot of action, fast motion, or fast movement.

Thanks,

Tom Laughlin
Producer/Editor
Salt Lake City, UT
FCP7/Sony EX-3/Mac Quad-Core Intel

[Craig Seeman]

[Tom Laughlin] “I just didn’t want to have to start a new post”

But someone else also looking for information about codecs would now have a hard time finding the post given the thread title. New thread with new title makes it easier for others to find.

[Craig Seeman]

[Tom Laughlin] “there still was some value in HDV, 1440×1080, and that although not full 1080p, it was still of some worth in still using it today”

Kind of meaningless statement without comparison. HDV has value XDCAM EX has more value. There’s little reason to chose HDV over XDCAM EX. Heck there’s still “some value” to Standard Def as well. It doesn’t mean you chose it over better codecs though unless you have a workflow situation that’s made easier/faster otherwise.

There’s no context to the above statement.

[Tom Laughlin] “I’ve seen stuff shot in SP mode and shown on a HD monitor, and it doesn’t look that different from 1080p, obviously there’s a lot of variables to this”

It depends what you’re shooting. Shooting with HDV is a risk because if there is a difference you don’t find out about it until after the shoot and the damage is irreversible.

[Tom Laughlin] “So, if I’m shooting in CBR (HDV) 25Mbps on the EX-3 in SP mode, and Final Cut imports it, and it defaults the timeline at HDV 60i, should I ‘manaully’ change the Time-line Settings to the EX 35 VBR Mbps setting?”

No, if you shoot HDV, you got HDV. There’s no point to changing the timeline. The HDV is 60i (59.94). You keep inadvertently pointing to reasons why NOT to shoot HDV. Why shoot interlace when deinterlacing is just another round of damage to a codec which is worse than XDCAM EX.

Again there’s NO reason to shoot HDV except when matching a project already using HDV from other sources. There’s no advantage and many disadvantages.