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Real World job on FCPX
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[David Lawrence] “[Clint Wardlow] ” do a lot of projections and non-linear narrative (along with more traditional stuff). However, I currently use tracks extensively to layer audio & video and my biggest fear is that the magnetic timeline will limit my ability to control these elements to the degree I want. ”
I do this kind of work too. My gut is that if this is what you need, you’ll find the magnetic timeline unusable. It really favors simple, linear assembly and doesn’t offer the flexibility you get with tracks for the kind of layered, non-linear projects you describe. If you need multi-track audio mixing, you’ll hit a wall immediately. There’s a reason that you don’t see any audio mix screen shots in any of Apple’s FCPX marketing material.”
I second this. I do a lot of audio layering on any particular spot. I also work with a lot of rhythmic and textural events that I build in Omnisphere–pads, glides, and things there are no names for–and I blend sfx with musical elements. I rely very heavily on the ability to place elements in time. For me, timing is an extremely important element. Frankly, I don’t think I knew HOW important it was until I started examining FCP X.
And I like to work free-form. Sometimes, I might even want to start with music cues or sound effects. Let’s say I’m doing a promo for a mystery/noir/cop flick, and I’ve been haunted by a sound I came up with in Omnisphere. I might want to place three instances of that haunting sound in exact places in the timeline, and then build everything from there. Not an everyday event, buts it has happened and has been fruitful. That’s what I loved about FCP. Very freeform. It was a table that you placed things on, however you wanted to place them. Eventually, everything fills up, and the only important relationships between clips is that A) one thing follows another, and that one thing in some way obscures another.
You should try FCP X to get a feel, but my guess from you description is that it will not be to your taste.
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Yikes, I was wrong about the FCPX hubbub dying down. Still a lot of anger here.
Jeremy Garchow “What video formats do you usually work with?”
This where Apple and I differ. I love using old technology. I shoot with VHS, Betacam, MiniDV, HDV, Super 8, and rarely 16mm…whatever I can use to get an effect I am looking for. I just purchased a modified Pixelvision video camera (and also got a real deal on a Beaulieu 4008 super8 camera that came with, of all things, an old Super8 Sound full-coat audio recorder!) Obviously I transfer the old analog formats to miniDV using my Sony HDR-FX1 as the deck. Super8 is a more expensive proposition, but I use the pricy services of Super8 Sound to transfer it directly into a prores 422 format.
Currently, most of my digital video is shot in HDV or miniDV, though I am looking to add either the Panasonic AF100 or maybe the cheaper DSLR Canon7D to my arsenal.
I’m not sure if this would be a problem in FCPX as I tend to transcode everything to prores422 (though miniDV and HDV are natively supported in FCP7, prores just plays nicer if you want to do any effects.)
I guess the only real way I am gonna find out if FCPX will work for me, is to try it out at either the Apple Store or find someone who has it. I am nervous which way to go with my NLE future because, unlike many of the other traditional professionals on this site, I don’t have unlimited cash for investment. A bad choice will really sting.
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[Bill Davis] ” was reading with much interest until I got here…
“Incidentally, this project went to DVD, and not the web. The CEO wanted a tangible to hand out at a meeting, so having DVDSP was also helpful.”
And every thing crashed down in my thinking.
DVD? Really. That’s the level the CEO is stuck at? Plastic discs for a meeting. Wow.If the CEO had a clue, he would have simply ended his presentation with a slide containing a QR code – and told anyone wanting a link to the video to take a picture of it with their phones. Or put the same QR code on an easel at the exits. Of course there are people who don’t have smart phones – but many, MANY do – and that’s orders of magnitude more efficient than producing and passing out plastic discs.
If the point is to send out something that people perceive a valuable “take away”, a branded thumb drive on a lanyard would have made a hundred times the impression at little extra cost and has the attendant glow of giving someone a thing that remains USEFUL if they no longer need the content.
DVD’s and CD’s have little to NO perception of value any more. They are rapidly becoming “landfill fodder” because the moment a person comes to realize you don’t NEED a plastic disc to access the content anymore, the very concept becomes kinda quaint.
Plastic discs are a sure sign that you’re thinking backward, not forward.
How many of them will YOU be throwing out in the next few years? I bet that CEO’s disc will be at the top of the heap – and his “producer” will have her “awakening” not long after.”
Laugh all you want. The DVD’s helped me get more of the gig, not less, a nice fat check, and booked a couple more gigs from some of the guys that saw the DVD. I guess that shows not all CEO’s are t-shirt wearing hipsters like Jobs.
Anytime you don’t want any of these backward thinking jobs, please send them my way, I’ll be more than happy to take their cash and give them what they ask for.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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[David Lawrence] “[Jeremy Garchow] “And none of them will want to work in FCP7’s horrendous audio capabilities either.”
Minor annoyances aside, I think you’d be surprised how productive FCP7 is for audio. I can do 80-90% of a complex mix right in the timeline. OMF out if I’m working with my sound guys or round trip thru Soundtrack Pro if it’s just me. Or if time’s tight, I’ll often just stay right in FCP. Could it be better? Sure. Horrendous? I don’t think so.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Since FCP7 doesn’t have busses I still don’t see how X is that much different, from a truly practical perspective, when it comes to audio.”
Well for one thing, you don’t have to deal with only one “track” that’s locked in ripple mode. That and the connected clip concept get the biggest laughs.”
I’ve been mixing and finishing Network Broadcast material FOR YEARS on FCP. Is it the only way I do it? No. Do I sweeten in Logic or SoundTrack Pro? Often. But I HAVE mixed countless national and international spots for film, broadcast, and cable television with FCS. I have never had a piece rejected for either unsatisfactory mix or technical standards issues. I find its interactivity with control surfaces to be adequately responsive, and its relationship with Sound Track Pro to be very usable. To call it “horrendous” seems more than a tad ridiculous. To say that FCP X has better mixing capabilities is absurdly ridiculous.
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[Mark Dobson] “Your producer, like many people, seems to have a lot of uneducated preconceptions about FCP X. does she edit herself? Has she spent time with the programme?”
Yes, she can do basic editing in Avid and FCP, but is primarily a Producer.
[Mark Dobson] “Basically FCP X was probably more than adequate for the job you did for her. Maybe you could have shown her some of the features, maybe you could have turned the job around faster through using the new software?”
No, you apparently misread my post. I could not have done the job with X, because the Producer would not have booked me if that was what I was using.
And no, I couldn’t have turned the job around faster because X doesn’t integrate with Motion or Color, and of course there is no DVD authoring.[Mark Dobson] “To catagorise the wide range of editors who are learning to use FCP X as amateur or inexperienced editor is just expressing ignorance.”
Well, I would have a hard time calling a Producer with the type of credits this gal has ‘ignorant’. If you watch TV, you have seen her work. And you don’t produce for 30 years, and have a NetJets account and two assistants if you don’t know what you’re doing.
[Mark Dobson] “Bad workmen blame their tools. A craftsman will produce good work using the most basic tools because it’s what’s in your head, the experience you draw on, that’s more important.”
Well if I saw my mechanic working on the beemer with those cheap tools made in china that round-off the bolt heads, that you can buy at flea markets for two dollars, I would kick his ass. If I hired a finish carpenter to come and do trim work and he showed up with a beat up, rusty saw, no level, and no sandpaper, I would get a different carpenter. I would have to agree that ones choice of tools, tells a lot about the person using them. And for those that choose Final Cut X, I have to agree with the producer.
You see, in a way you are right, a craftsman can produce good work with simple tools if he had to, but a craftsman would not intentionally choose to use, or support an inferior tool.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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[Steve Connor] “Then FCPX is not for you, move on :)”
I have good reasons to give Apple a second chance, but sure I’ll do it if they don’t give me what I want.
Anyway is not my self but Apple who has to move on (and fast).
I still can make videos; FCPX users don’t.
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[Chris Harlan] “I have never had a piece rejected for either unsatisfactory mix or technical standards issues.”
Me neither. The controls are garbage the pink on green is also garbage. Bouncing to STP doesn’t count, I am talking strictly FCP control.
There’s no submix, there’s one bus and you can’t even keyframe control the master bus, beyond those pie in the sky additions,
The simple fade and nodes in X work much better than 7, as do the real time logic filters. The FCP7 filters are ridiculously not real time, and the interface is from last century. Audio is like the easiest thing to effect, especially with today’s super computers. FCP sucks here.
Audio has never been a strong suit of FCP, that’s my opinion. My 1997 copy if m100 was way better in most regards.
FCPx is a step in the right direction in terms of filters and control, as was STP, but that wasn’t quite there either. There will probably not be a master bus in FCPx unless it’s controlled by metadata, or a virtual patch panel. you can also secondary or compound clips and effect them all as one. Or not.
I am not sure that FCPx will be our ultimate choice, and for now it’s a learning process, but the potential is there. I know that everyone here does not feel that way.
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Steve Connor It doesn’t ‘force’ you to edit in a particular way and the only limits to free form creativity are where they have always been – in the hands of the editor.
In a way I feel this is a cop out answer. It seems to assume creativity exists only in the artist noggin. To realize a vision all artists need tools, and the quality of these tools will effect the art produced.
An example of this would be an artist armed with only a box of crayons. Sure he can exercise his craft with those crayons, but what he produces is going to be directly effected by the tools at hand. Take this same artist and give him access to a whole array of brushes, oils, and acrylics. Suddenly his art takes on whole range of possibilities beyond what was possible with the crayons.
Art does not pop fully formed from the artist’s head, but is a marriage between his creativity and the tools he wields. The more possibilities his tools offer, the greater his ability to fully give form to his creativity.
Now I am not saying FCPX is a box of crayons while FCP7 or Avid or PP are a full palate of oils, brushes, and acrylics. What I am saying is that FCPX and its magnetic timeline does look very limiting towards the kind of art I produce. I could be wrong on this. That is what I am trying to determine.
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Dailies for a majority of the biggest films, commercials, and TV shows in the world end up on DVD and/or services like DAX or PIX(and soon nextSPOT). I’m trying not to sound like a money-grubber, but you can charge for encoding time and delivery too. I know a few studios that will actually charge $150 for supplying, labeling, and encoding each DVD.
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[illya laney] “Dailies for a majority of the biggest films, commercials, and TV shows in the world end up on DVD and/or services like DAX or PIX(and soon nextSPOT). I’m trying not to sound like a money-grubber, but you can charge for encoding time and delivery too. I know a few studios that will actually charge $150 for supplying, labeling, and encoding each DVD.”
You’re absolutely right. In my case doing DVD’s was an additional revenue stream for me the client was happy to pay for, and another thing you can’t do (DVD with real menus) with X. Pushing the client into thumb drives, and other ‘more modern’ suggestions would have not generated additional income for myself, and not what the client asked for. I keep hearing how DVD’s are ‘dead’, but I have had a continuous demand for them, and have had zero requests for thumb drives, Bluray, and only about 20% wanted some type of web encoding, or QT files in addition to their DVD’s. As far as quantity, most runs of DVD’s are small between 25-500.
So are DVD’s really dead?
Apple, and the studios would love for you to think so, but it seems like the public is having a hard time being pushed into yet another format change.
About a year and a half ago the area Target, Wally world, and other big box types completely pulled DVD movies, and players, replacing them with BR. But in the last 6-9 months DVD players, and movies have made a quiet comeback in these stores, with what seems like more models of players than before, and about a 50-50 split on DVD vs Bluray discs. Even as BR players and discs have been slashed in prices to try and boost sales. It wouldn’t surprise me if DVD outlasted Bluray in the long run.
As far as why clients want DVD’s? I have heard a number of reasons, most of which I’m sure would cause the DVD haters to post some counter argument, so I’ll just pass on posting them. I don’t care why they prefer them, I’m happy to make them, and as long as people ask for them, it is additional income.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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