preparing HD master in 59.94 . . .

[Mark Raudonis]

That should work. You’re essentially defining your “target times” to hit on a NDF timeline. It’s kind of like a “yardstick” that also has the “metric” system on the same scale. You can easily see that one meter equals 39 inches.

Here’s a URL to a very precise explanation of the whole DF/NDF issue.

https://www.csif.org/html/dropframe.html

mark

[Walter Biscardi]

[Shane Ross] ”
What is your offline workflow you use to ensure proper timings?”

Shane, the show we’re currently posting is first cut in SD on an AVID at their studio. She gives me an OMF from her AVID timeline along with the raw tapes and we conform the show to HD along with all graphics, animation and color correction.

Now we are preparing a few original series that will be solely cut here so now we’re looking at this whole issue for purposes of timing and one thing I’m going to do is look at her original OMF (which I open as an 8bit AJA Uncompressed SD sequence) and look at my NDF 59.94 timeline and see if they are exact matches in timing or not.

If not, my workflow for timing will most likely be to simply go ahead and capture / edit in 59.94 in the NDF timeline. Then open an 8bit or DV DF timeline. Copy each segment out of the DVCPro HD timeline and simply paste into the DF SD timeline for timing. That will make it easier than using a calculator and won’t require any sort of re-capture.

I still have not fully investigated if in fact 59.94 NDF DVCPro HD timeline truly matches a DF SD timeline. The use of 59.94 and 23.98 by Panasonic is pretty confusing when Final Cut Pro does not recognize these frame rates as DF.

As soon as our workload slows a bit, timing testing will be the next round of testing here.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Steven Gonzales]

There’s a useful article at the Editor’s Guild website with various conversions. This could easily be put in Excel as a formula for easy access when needed (heck, I guess someone could easily create a dashboard widget). https://www.editorsguild.com/newsletter/JanFeb03/tip_math.html

The one for non-drop frame to drop frame conversion is this:

12. Convert non-drop frame timecode to drop frame timecode:

Drop frame timecode adds 2 frames every minute, but not when the minute ends in 0 (minute 10, 20, 30, etc.).

Ignore hours.
Multiply minutes by 2
Take the left-most integer of the original minutes column and multiply by 2.
Subtract (c) from (b).
Add the result, in frames, to the non-drop frame value.
Convert frames to seconds, as needed (30 frames = 1 second).

Example: Convert 07:32:56:27 non-drop to drop frame timecode

Double the minutes: 32 x 2 = 64
Double the left-most minutes integer: 3 x 2 = 6
Subtract: 64 – 6 = 58
Add the result to the frames column: 27 + 58 = 85
Convert to seconds: 85 / 30 = 2 with a remainder of 25, or 2 seconds 25 frames.

The answer is 07;32;58;25

[Shane Ross]

Just spoke with an online editor at a post house out here who offlines with DVCPRO HD and he told me that they only work with 720p24 footage running at 23.98 fps…which is what I will be doing.

At that rate, the timecode is only DF. I will have to verify this when I get some test footage from my DP, but if that is the case, that is a BIG plus…

[Walter Biscardi]

[Shane Ross] “At that rate, the timecode is only DF. I will have to verify this when I get some test footage from my DP, but if that is the case, that is a BIG plus…”

Yeah, but your Timelines in FCP will still be NDF. You can check that right now. Just create a DVCProHD 24 (editing timebase of 23.98) timeline in FCP 5. Check the Timecode, it’s Non-Drop Frame with no way to change it over to Drop.

Still need to look this over and see how the timing compares to the SD DF timeline.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Shane Ross]

Dang it Walter…you are right. 23.98 but the timeline settings are only Non-Drop frame. I really have to ask the post house that does this all the time what they do. I think they dropped it into a 29.97 timeline just to see where they are.

That is a horrible way of going about it, IMHO. I will be checking further, and await your results too Walter.

Interestingly enough, I did have a few DVCPRO HD clips that were 720p30, yet ran at 29.97. I don’t know why they were formatted like that, as I captured them with several other clips on the same tape that were all 59.94fps. And I used an Easy Setup too. Odd. But, the 29.97 clips were able to go into a drop frame timeline.

[Walter Biscardi]

[Shane Ross] ”
Dang it Walter…you are right. 23.98 but the timeline settings are only Non-Drop frame. I really have to ask the post house that does this all the time what they do. I think they dropped it into a 29.97 timeline just to see where they are.”

Yeah it’s screwy. I’m hoping to get some time next week to really look at this while finishing up our short film. I’m just in one of those places right now where I already have too much work this week and just added a national commercial on Saturday. Sunday will be a major day of sleep. 🙂

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com

Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[David Carroll]

Hi Steven,

I tried to acces the editors guild article on timecode formulas and it was not there anymore.

Can you send me a copy of the article?

david at siderealfilms dot com