Portable Capture System

[Craig Seeman]

I’ll add to what Steve posted especially since you mentioned Tennis previous to it.
I have a Tennis client I do video for. It ranges from web to digital signage to local cable spots.

For various reasons I’ve shot 720p60, 720p30/60, 1080i60.
The XDCAM codec does not break in my experience. Actually some really challenging tests are not obvious. Running water or waving leaves on a breezy day are MAJOR FAST ACTION. Fast action is pixel by pixel change from frame to frame or field to field (depending on shooting mode) and the codec does NOT BREAK (unlike HDV). HDV is 25mbps CBR (easily broken) whereas XDCAM is 35mbps VBR and that’s a world of difference.

All HD broadcast is either 720p60 or 1080i60. 60 “units” per second gives you best temporal resolutions. 1080p30, having only 30 “units” (I say units because p60 is frames and i60 is fields) has only 30 “units” per second. Obviously having 60 discreet “snapshots” per second has more greater capacity for motion detail.

Shutter speed certainly has impact too but that should have no impact on your product since it has no impact on data per “unit”

BTW a key thing to consider when creating such a device is record data rate. XDCAM playback data rate is 35mbps VBR, record can be much higher. Someone shooting at 720p24/60 for slow mo may be hitting something like 87mbps on the record side. In fact that’s one of the reasons why SxS cards are so expensive. In fact most Express cards can’t sustain 35mbps (people are testing with the 1.11 EX1 firmware as well as the EX3 current firmware).

One big advantage of HDSDI out is the “color space” if one is doing heavy compositing and that the source file comes from the camera before XDCAM codec compression. This would be similar to HDMI HDV cameras (Sony V series comes to mind).

There’s all sorts of potential engineering issues when it comes to read, write, reliability things when it comes to hard drive vs flash type recorders. Convergent Design is Flash based. Some might remember a company (Specialist Communications?) that was working on a hard drive based solution for P2 cameras. They abandoned the projects as P2 card prices dropped. Of course they were dealing with a 100mbps codec (although can be less for those who know why you get more P2 recording at 720p24 vs 1080p30).

[Craig Seeman]

I’ll add to what Steve posted especially since you mentioned Tennis previous to it.
I have a Tennis client I do video for. It ranges from web to digital signage to local cable spots.

For various reasons I’ve shot 720p60, 720p30/60, 1080i60.
The XDCAM codec does not break in my experience. Actually some really challenging tests are not obvious. Running water or waving leaves on a breezy day are MAJOR FAST ACTION. Fast action is pixel by pixel change from frame to frame or field to field (depending on shooting mode) and the codec does NOT BREAK (unlike HDV). HDV is 25mbps CBR (easily broken) whereas XDCAM is 35mbps VBR and that’s a world of difference.

All HD broadcast is either 720p60 or 1080i60. 60 “units” per second gives you best temporal resolutions. 1080p30, having only 30 “units” (I say units because p60 is frames and i60 is fields) has only 30 “units” per second. Obviously having 60 discreet “snapshots” per second has more greater capacity for motion detail.

Shutter speed certainly has impact too but that should have no impact on your product since it has no impact on data per “unit”

BTW a key thing to consider when creating such a device is record data rate. XDCAM playback data rate is 35mbps VBR, record can be much higher. Someone shooting at 720p24/60 for slow mo may be hitting something like 87mbps on the record side. In fact that’s one of the reasons why SxS cards are so expensive. In fact most Express cards can’t sustain 35mbps (people are testing with the 1.11 EX1 firmware as well as the EX3 current firmware).

One big advantage of HDSDI out is the “color space” if one is doing heavy compositing and that the source file comes from the camera before XDCAM codec compression. This would be similar to HDMI HDV cameras (Sony V series comes to mind).

There’s all sorts of potential engineering issues when it comes to read, write, reliability things when it comes to hard drive vs flash type recorders. Convergent Design is Flash based. Some might remember a company (Speclalist Communications? BTW deliberately misspelled because COW seems to think I’m posting a “male enhancement” item) that was working on a hard drive based solution for P2 cameras. They abandoned the projects as P2 card prices dropped. Of course they were dealing with a 100mbps codec (although can be less for those who know why you get more P2 recording at 720p24 vs 1080p30).

[David Issko]

Brian,

Just a note to let you know that CD will have an upgrade to uncompressed for their XDR recorder soon after the unit is readily available.
Cheers
David Issko

[Mark Espina]

Hi Brian,

I would be very interested to check-out a portable HD-SDI recorder for the EX which I’m sure would also be compatible to other cameras with an HD-SDI out.

At the moment, as far as I know, one can only do this by having a workstation with an appropriate capture card (Kona, BM or others) on set/location which would be connected to a power outlet. Your camera would then be connected via cable – limiting its movement.

To have an untethered unit which would be able to capture uncompressed 4:2:2 10bit signals from the camera would be fantastic.

There would surely be a market for this.

Build it and they will come (or buy in your case).

Oh, and when you do get it working – make it affordable enough for us indie filmmakers.

Cheers.

[Brian Jacobs]

Mark,

thanks so much for your valued and much needed positive feedback…

Your point re affordability is in fact one of the reasons I am confident that this will work…..

When I have a prototype ready, I will be looking for people to test it….

My email address is – bricyn786@yahoo.com – please mail me directly with your contact details so I can keep you updated on progress. Once its ready, we can make work out a schedule for testing.

Brian Jacobs.

[Michael Palmer]

Convergent Design’s Flash XDR compact flash recorder allows the end user to choose the compression needed for the project. Unless you plan on using the Sony HD Cam SR deck to record you won’t come close to the lower levels compression it can deliver. The compact flash design is the future of our business, and no hard drive system will ever compete with field work.

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/142/860531

Good Luck
Michael Palmer

[Brian Jacobs]

Thanks for your input Michael…

Brian…

[Oliver Heuft]

Hi Craig,
i own the EX3 and tried to freeze fast tennis motion. What settings would you propose to get best results (not blurry): fomat, shutter speed, shutter angle?, fokus (manual or autofokus). My results at the moment (PAL, 720p, 50fps) are horrible.

THX in advance. Oliver

[Paul Marshall]

Hi Brian,

I read this thread with interest as I am in the market for such a device, along with an EX-3. I work at one of the small ITV regions in the UK, mainly on news/sport/current affairs docos and commercial and corporate but it’s the standard definition news environment that I am interested in with this camera. (I appreciate that it ain’t “built tough” but it should survive in my hands)

The main reason I’m interested in a separate recording device is to be able to record standard def straight onto low cost, easily changeable disk – Compact Flash ideally. In the fast paced news environment I can’t spare the time to be able to do lengthy down-conversion to enable our editors to do their thing on our Avid server system.

Sony make just such a device that I believe comes with one or two of their “prosumer” models. It will also be available separately apparently. It will work via I-Link on other cams, such as the EX-3.

I don’t know if this helps you but it might give you an insight into what different people are after. Also, I don’t know how practical your backpack solution will be. Sure, some people will accept this for ultimate quality in certain situations but it’s not a road I would willingly go down for many reasons. I’m not sure either that many people need such high recording capacity either, there are only so many hours in a day! Wildlife shooters might be grateful I suppose!

Another thought for you…I’ve been researching this whole subject for some time and I recall reading somewhere that the variable frame rate function does not record via the HD/SDI out – only to the SxS card. I’m not sure yet if VFR will record via I-Link. Any ideas anyone?

One final thought though. I’m sure that this camera could easily find it’s way into the news gathering arena but lack of SD recording is a big issue (at least for now). In fact I don’t really understand why Sony didn’t build this in. Firmware update possible anyone?

I’m brand new to this forum so Hi all and thanks for the fascinating posts. I also apologise in advance if I have my facts wrong.

P.S. If anyone is wondering why I want to go to this level of hassle to shoot news, it’s because I have serious back problems (20 years in this industry does that) and so I have to lighten my load. Also not prepared to drop below half inch sensors for DOF issues.

P.P.S. Brian, there is a yet to be made product that really would transform the EX-3 into a serious piece of kit for all users that are used to pro shoulder mount cameras, and I don’t just mean a shoulder brace! I have the design worked out in my head but no ability to take it further. If you’d like to e-mail me directly we may be able to come up with something to our mutual benefit.

But good luck with everything!!

[Brian Jacobs]

Paul, hi…

Thank you for your thoughts and comments.

My email address is bricyn786@yahoo.com
Please do feel free to get in touch with me directly so we can discuss your idea….

I expect to have my first prototype ready for testing in a couple of weeks….I’m waiting on a component to arrive from China…The latest configuration of my design provides for over 5 hours of uncompressed HD capture….

I can easily downscale my design for SD, if you indicate to me how many hours of SD you need to be able to capture and what kind of additional weight you can carry.

Brian Jacobs.

Brian