PL lenses or cinema lenses on C100

[Trevor Ward]

I wasn’t sure I could assign the thumb wheels. I rented the camera and didn’t have a whole lot of time to learn everything it can do. I also assumed I could re-assign the buttons but didn’t have time to figure that out. I should have. The iso was a bigger deal to me than the white balance.

I was using a smaller handle. Not sure who makes it. I’ll try to take a picture of it and post it. It was nice and I think better than the handle it comes with.

-Trevor Ward
Red Eye Film Co.
http://www.redeyefilmco.com
Orlando, FL

[Craig Alan]

Wow that looks like a killer set up.

Sample clip?

Curious about a couple things.

When you shoot studio style do you have someone pull focus?

If so, what do you use as a monitor?

Is the built in monitor good enough for sharp focus?

How well balanced is the run and gun set up? Are you able to stay focused with that set up?

I’d guess it takes a good bit of practice and skill to pull that off?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Todd Terry]

Thanks Craig…

[Craig Alan] “Sample clip?”

Any of this…
https://fantasticplastic.com/portfolio/news082.html
https://fantasticplastic.com/portfolio/news081.html
https://fantasticplastic.com/portfolio/news083.html

[Craig Alan] “When you shoot studio style do you have someone pull focus? “

Sometimes, but I usually pull focus myself when on sticks, jib, dolly, or slider. Actually when I go handheld with primes that’s when I’m more likely to have someone else pull focus… my AC puts a 12″ or 14″ whip in the focus wheel port and pulls with that. Sadly, he can’t with zooms (my zoom isn’t geared, as you can see in the above shot), so if shooting with a zoom handheld, then I pull my own focus.

[Craig Alan] “If so, what do you use as a monitor? “

In studio I have a about a 14″ (I think) 1080 monitor for focus that is fed via HDMI. It’s not an expensive piece of gear, basically just a TV monitor. I made sure to get one that is actually 12v (a lot of them are) so I could put a goldmount on the back to battery power it on location. It is well within the “good enough” category since I’m just using it for focus.

[Craig Alan] “Is the built in monitor good enough for sharp focus? “

Yes the various focus-assist tools work really well. I usually turn on the red-line peaking and switch the LCD to black and white if I’m focusing via the LCD. Works quite well.

[Craig Alan] “How well balanced is the run and gun set up? Are you able to stay focused with that set up?”

Not great. It’s serviceable, but not the world’s best, easiest, or most balance handheld setup. It pales in comparison to a true shoulder-mount camera as far as balance and ergonomics go… but fortunately for me I do very little handheld.

[Craig Alan] “I’d guess it takes a good bit of practice and skill to pull that off?”

Yup. And it’s a bit tiring. But I’m already old and tired.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Todd,

best part of those links for me is being able to see your set. I notice you prefer to hang your Hypercardioids and booms rather than using a boom operator? Sounds fine though your talent knew how to project and was fairly still in terms of head movement. The cam had that blurred b.g. look of a large sensor. Did you key any of the background? Love the big silks and the attention to detail in setting everything up. Looks like you went with a soft look on your talent’s faces – was that a result of the white reflected/filters lighting or a post effect or both?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Todd Terry]

Thanks Craig…

Getting off track of Trevor’s original thread, but I hope he doesn’t mind (I think his issues were long since addressed by now).

As for audio… I’ll use a boom operator if my talent is moving or walking around, but if they are just sitting or standing I’ll usually put the boom on a C-stand. On that white set, I hung it from a couple of grip arms from the lighting grid primarily to free up floor space since our puny little stage is so small. I almost always use the same mic, the Sennheiser MKH416. They’re not cheap, but some of the best money you’ll ever spend. Highly directional… obviously we usually try to mic talent as close as possible, but if needed I can mic even fairly quiet dialog from 4-5 feet with no problem. That mic can do double duty, too. Once when I had a problem with the usual AT voiceover mic in our audio booth I threw the 416 in there on a lark, and it sounded great. Only after that did I learn that a lot of top narrators use it as a voiceover mic because it has a really warm and open sound. It does require 48v phantom power though, so your camera has to support that (fortunately now most higher-end cameras do).

Backgrounds were all practical, nothing keyed.

I’m not sure if by “soft look” on the talents’ faces if you mean lighting or actual sharpness….

I do tend to light large soft sources… the white set was medium-size softboxes and umbrella (tungsten). The interior car set was 12×12 silk and 4×8 white bounces, all HMI lighting (except the talent’s key which was a Diva, and his backlight which was a Switronix TorchLED). The exterior car scenes were HMIs through 4×4 silks, some LEDs (usually for back/side lighting) and some white 4×4 bounces.

If you were referring to actual sharpness… none of that was post, all in camera. My primes are pretty fast (f/1.3), so especially with the longer lenses (and depending on the distance) if I open them up all the way I can get a DoF as shallow as an inch or even less. If you can do that and keep eyeballs razor sharp then the rest of the facial features can fall off just a tiny bit soft, which can be a cool effect, when appropriate (and is usually very flattering to talent, too). As long as the eyeballs are pin-sharp, the softness on other features doesn’t look “wrong” to your brain. I don’t choose that for everything, but occasionally it works. Though sometimes focus pulling can be a royal biotch.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Todd. We use pretty much the same practice for audio. We use c-stands and boom poles. I like the cordless kits as well but the hypers get better sound. We use Audio-Technica AT4053b Hypercardioid Condenser Microphones. The Senn has a slightly better reach but these work great and a steal at about $600. Sound is the key for most productions. You can fix a lot of the visuals in post but the audio has to be captured clean. We can’t afford the HMIs but we do have a pretty good size studio with a nice cyc wall. We use a lot of Kinos and Fresnels up to 1ks. Not the big boys like you have. The Kinos are pretty idiot proof but you need a lot of them for wide shots. Would love to play with an HMI through a silk. For outside shots we use the sun and wait for the magic hour or find shaded areas. We do have reflectors and silks and a bunch of grip stuff. But I don’t have a huge butterfly. We do have a couple smaller ones. Anyway the combo of seeing the set up and watching the shots is a great learning tool.

Thanks.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Todd Terry]

[Craig Alan] “Anyway the combo of seeing the set up and watching the shots is a great learning tool.”

I agree… I wish more people here would post samples. I almost invariably learn something (even when that something is what not to do… ha).

Wow, yeah that AT mic is a steal. The 416 is about double that. We have radio mics too but I can’t even remember the last time I used them. I hate putting a mic on talent, either wireless or hardwired. Even the best laviliers in the world just sound so cold and sterile compared to a good boom, which sounds so open and natural.

I almost never use HMIs in studio. There it’s almost always tungsten and flos for me. I will use them on location interiors though, especially in big rooms, or outside though windows. And I use them a lot for exteriors, to give some punch or fake magic hour when it’s not. I don’t use big butterflys like that 12x often, but I do use a lot of 4×4 silks. And while we have lots of the “pop up” kind of reflectors, I almost never use them either. In my opinion a white 4×4 foamcore bounce card is just about the prettiest bounce light there is. Also cheap, and a lot easier to mount and position… just a stand and grip head with a quacker (duckbill) clamp.

Actually since my last camera change my lighting design has radically changed too. We went from the XLH1, which is not the greatest in low light, PLUS I was using a P+S Technik Mini35 converter which ate a lot of light. With the C300 I only need a tiny fraction of the illumination I did before, so that has really changed everything. Doing much more subtractive light now rather than additive. I’ll often light a location scene purely with LEDs now. And my favorite part of that is that all of ours are battery powered with small AB bricks, or even smaller camera batteries on some of the smaller ones. No more hunting for outlets or running stingers. Aadyntech makes a bigass LED fresnel that’s the equivalent of a 1200w HMI that will run for several hours on a battery. I’d love to have one, but it’s still about $6K I think and can’t quite justify that.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Bob Cole]

I too have been surprised by the high price of new PL zooms.

What about repurposing used optics, that were developed for film cameras? Is there a technical reason that they wouldn’t be useful for a large sensor video camera?

Bob C

[Todd Terry]

[Bob Cole] “What about repurposing used optics, that were developed for film cameras? Is there a technical reason that they wouldn’t be useful for a large sensor video camera?”

Nope Bob, there’s no reason at all… in fact just the opposite. If you are talking about a 35mm (format, not focal length) PL mount cine glass… well then a lens is a lens is a lens. It doesn’t matter what you put it on, it’s all the same thing.

My lenses are superspeed cine lenses and have probably shot a few zillion feet of stock, not just from me but those before me. Previous owner was Bojan Bazelli, and awesome DP who shot everything from “The Ring” to “Mr. and Mrs. Smith” (and most recently, “The Long Ranger.”) But right now I primarily shoot with the C300PL with those same lenses…. the ones I also use with my XLH1 and P+S Technik Mini35 converter. And when shooting 35mm film with the Arri 535B. I’ve yet to put them on an Alexa or a RED, but they’ll work.

[Bob Cole] “I too have been surprised by the high price of new PL zooms.”

Then you might be surprised by the price of used ones, too…sadly. Ten years ago, it was easy. You could find a great set of matched PL mount primes for $10-12,000 (maybe twice that for superspeeds). Then a few years later something happened… they broke out of their film-only mode and people began snapping them up for use with DoF converters, and the few large-sensor cameras like the RED ONE. And now the bunches of different 35mm-sensor cameras. The used market was quickly decimated, it just dried up and prices shot through the roof. Five years ago that $12K set of lenses quickly doubled in price, if not more. And they’ve gone up at least 50% more yet again… if you can find them (I searched for six months to find the set we finally bought, and that was about six years ago now).

A decent set of older Cooke Speed Panchros (S2 or S3) will still cost you many tens of thousands of dollars. Not quite the $100K of a brand new set of Cooke S4/i’s, but still a big chunk.

The excellent Russian LOMO cine lenses were, for a while, the best kept secret around. They are stunningly good (I’d compare them to 80-90’s era Zeiss… warm, very sharp and great contrast). For a while you could buy a set for a few hundred dollars. Yes, hundred. But, people discovered them and ripped through the used supply in no time. Now they command pretty high prices… again, when you can find them.

Now, we were talking about zooms, though. They’re even worse than primes, because fewer of them were built and they’re even more in demand (especially fast ones, which were a rarity).

The good news though is that if you already have cine lenses, they’re a good investment. Virtually every piece of gear we own has depreciated like a rock, some so fast it would make you wana cry. Except the glass… my lenses are worth a lot more today than when I bought them.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com