Panasonic HVX200 workflow questions (used to DVCAM).

[Stephen Downes]

[iMan] “That helps a lot. I assume I bring in the SD DVCPRO50 footage from my P2 card, then bring in the SD footage from JVC in Mini-DV mode, then with a sequence set up to higher quality one i.e. the Panny Standard def DVCPRO50, I bring the DVCPRO50 clips to the timeline, then as I drop the JVC standard def mini-dv footage onto the timeline, it will be red-lined indicating that I will need to render it?
Then I simply render it and away I go?”

Yes that’s correct.

[iMan] “If I chose to use an AJA IO card in 10 bit uncompressed and brining in via component, won’t their be a loss of quality as component is not as good as FireWire?
Also, with 10 bit uncompressed, won’t I need to upgrade my hardware i.e. raid aray etc or will my exsisting internal 7200 hard drive do the job.”

The component capture will look very good and any small lose in quality going through this analogue stage would be more than compensated for by getting the material into a robust codec – multiple renders and particularly graphics can look terrible in the DV codec.
To go 10 bit uncompressed SD you’d probably need a raid array, but a single 7200 rpm SATA drive may just do it (two raided together definitely will) but if not 10 bit you could do 8 bit uncompressed or even Photo-JPEG at 75% gives online quality if you’ve got older IDE/ATA drives.

But iMan I’m wondering, why limit your quality to SD acquisition? Why not shoot DVCProHD on the HVX and HDV on the JVC. It sounds as though you’ve got a firewire-based system, so If you’ve got Final Cut 5 import the P2 DVCProHD as you normally would, then capture the HDV material and do a batch transcode to DVCProHD. Then cut everything in DVCProHD, which your 7200 rpm drive should handle as the maximum data rate is only 14 MB/s. If you don’t have Final Cut 5 you can use the free apps DVHSCap or VirtualDVHS to capture the HDV material and then transcode it to DVCProHD using the free Squared 5 MPEG Slipstream. When you finish the cut you can do a final convertion/output to whatever format you require. Even if the final requirement is Standard Def, the image quality you get by acquiring in Hi Def and eventually down-converting will look fantastic – more like it was originally shot on a format like DigiBeta.

Hope this helps,

Stephen Downes

[Nigel]

[Steve]But iMan I’m wondering, why limit your quality to SD acquisition? Why not shoot DVCProHD on the HVX and HDV on the JVC. It sounds as though you’ve got a firewire-based system, so If you’ve got Final Cut 5 import the P2 DVCProHD as you normally would, then capture the HDV material and do a batch transcode to DVCProHD. Then cut everything in DVCProHD, which your 7200 rpm drive should handle as the maximum data rate is only 14 MB/s. If you don’t have Final Cut 5 you can use the free apps DVHSCap or VirtualDVHS to capture the HDV material and then transcode it to DVCProHD using the free Squared 5 MPEG Slipstream. When you finish the cut you can do a final convertion/output to whatever format you require. Even if the final requirement is Standard Def, the image quality you get by acquiring in Hi Def and eventually down-converting will look fantastic – more like it was originally shot on a format like DigiBeta.

Steve, your above quote sounds ideal. I think I want to go down this route. Will this definitely work? I have Final Cut Pro 5 HD suite.

You say the DVCProHD material is only 14MB/s, I thought it was 100?

Can I transcode JVC HDV720P footage to the DVCProHD codec within Final Cut Pro?

What about the frame size difference as I

[Stephen Downes]

[iMan] “Steve, your above quote sounds ideal. I think I want to go down this route. Will this definitely work? I have Final Cut Pro 5 HD suite.

Yes, it will definitely work.

[iMan] You say the DVCProHD material is only 14MB/s, I thought it was 100?

DVCProHD is approximately 100 Mbits/s, to get the data-rate in MBytes you must divide the Mbit figure by 8.

[iMan] Can I transcode JVC HDV720P footage to the DVCProHD codec within Final Cut Pro?

You can do the transcode in Quicktime Pro, Final Cut or Compressor. Probably best to do in Compressor because it’s easier to set up a batch transcode and not waste so much of your time.

[iMan] What about the frame size difference as I

[Nigel]

Stephen, that is brilliant. It never occured to me to shoot in 720p from the HVX, of course, then both lots of footage will match up perfectly.

So just to confirm, I should record 720P on the HVX and the JVC, which equates to the same frame size. The only difference between the two in this case is the JVC uses the MPEG2 codec due to the HDV compression – but the transcode using QuickTime Pro will turn this into the HVX uncompressed (well, not HDV) HD codec so they match perfectly on the timeline right?

I’m assuming the P in 720P is the Progressive shooting part. Due to this flicker/judder of 720p maybe I should get a bit of training/schooling on how to shoot like a cinematographer, as opposed to a videographer as you have to do things differently when shooting in progressive right, such as following the motion, not having a moving car fly across the frame of a locked off shot etc?

Thanks again Stephen, almost there.

[Nigel]

Somebody just told me it appears that FCP does not support 720p in 24p mode?

I’m in the UK so would I use 24P or 25P?

[Stephen Downes]

[iMan] “So just to confirm, I should record 720P on the HVX and the JVC, which equates to the same frame size. The only difference between the two in this case is the JVC uses the MPEG2 codec due to the HDV compression – but the transcode using QuickTime Pro will turn this into the HVX uncompressed (well, not HDV) HD codec so they match perfectly on the timeline right?

Right

[iMan] I’m assuming the P in 720P is the Progressive shooting part. Due to this flicker/judder of 720p maybe I should get a bit of training/schooling on how to shoot like a cinematographer, as opposed to a videographer as you have to do things differently when shooting in progressive right, such as following the motion, not having a moving car fly across the frame of a locked off shot etc?”

Correct, your pan speeds have to be very slow to reduce motion judder.

Stephen Downes

[Stephen Downes]

[iMan] “Somebody just told me it appears that FCP does not support 720p in 24p mode?

I’m in the UK so would I use 24P or 25P?”

Uhgg! Another complication! It’s worse than that, Final Cut doesn’t support 720/25p either! However, this situation is likely to change over the next week at NAB when Final Cut 6 is announced. But that doesn’t help you now. At present you can make Final Cut 5 handle 720/24p and 720/25p by buying and using the Lumiere plug-in – found @ https://www.lumierehd.com/. This plug-in also handles the transcode to DVCProHD.

Hope this solves the problem for you,

Stephen Downes

[Nigel]

That helps a lot. Okay, the NAB update will be fine, I’m looking at shooting this over an 8 week period starting in 3 weeks time, so by the time I’m finished FCP6 should be around for me to edit it on.

Finally, I promise 😉 I know 24P is closer to the film look due to film movies being shot at 24 fps, but would I shoot on 24 or 25P if I only intend it to be distributed on DVD in the UK and Europe and possibly a few sales in the USA?

I never could totally understand the difference between 24p and 25p?

This should totaly wrap this up, and thanks gain Stephen.

[Stephen Downes]

[iMan] “That helps a lot. Okay, the NAB update will be fine, I’m looking at shooting this over an 8 week period starting in 3 weeks time, so by the time I’m finished FCP6 should be around for me to edit it on.

We’re all hoping for 720/24p and 720/25p support in Final Cut 6 and it probably will come, but certainly don’t take anything for granted!

[iMan] Finally, I promise 😉 I know 24P is closer to the film look due to film movies being shot at 24 fps, but would I shoot on 24 or 25P if I only intend it to be distributed on DVD in the UK and Europe and possibly a few sales in the USA?

I never could totally understand the difference between 24p and 25p?

24p and 25p are so close there is next to no difference in the look of the temporal nature of the motion – one won’t look more or less filmic (some would argue this, but you can shoot high-speed film and it will still look like film – there’s a lot more going on than mere frame-rate to give the ‘film’ look). Because your market is mainly PAL DVD, I think I’d play it safe and shoot 25p. Once you’ve produced a Standard Def master of your film you could either go to a production house to get it standards converted or do it yourself in software using Compressor or Graeme Nattress’s filter to produce an NTSC file to burn the few NTSC DVD’s you expect to sell to the US.

Best,

Stephen Downes

[Nigel]

Thanks for taking the time to answer this little lot Stephen, you’ve been a great help.

Thanks again.