ownership of work

[Mike Cohen]

My opinion matches the other responses. When doing corporate video work, the client owns the end product and can do what they like with it.
I occasionally get an e-mail “we are having trouble copying the videos off the DVD, can you send us WMV…” etc
In most cases it is not too big a deal to make them their other formats, either at no charge or at our agreed upon hourly rate – it is an hour or so of work to convert to another format, so it is sometimes just a nice thing to do for your client – assuming it is a client who pays their bills!
If you are paid as an editor, for example, on a broadcast or direct to video for sale project, it may be ok for your name to be on the credits – that is at the discretion of those paying you. But on a corporate job, usually it should have the appearance of being totally a corporate production – your credit is your payment.

Mike

[Todd Terry]

I agree… unless your contract stipulates otherwise (and ours usually do), even though you may consider it your “baby” the client pretty much owns it and can do with it as he/she likes.

That’s why pretty specific contracts are important… rights to specific elements (i.e., music, actors’ appearances) may be cleared for one particular project but not another… and if the client takes the project and cuts on it or re-uses elements in a different project they may be infringing upon some of the individual rights holders.

As for “I absolutely reserve the right to put my name at the end of it,” things may be a little different across the pond but here in the Colonies that would be a little unusual… I agree with Mike, it’s not really the norm for corporate pieces to have credits. We don’t ever put them on corporate pieces, and I don’t think our clients would allow them. Much like we don’t put credits on commercials.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Bruce Bennett]

My thoughts on this…

A long time ago when I first started in this business, I decided NOT to include my name, or the company name for which I worked for, in my projects’ credits. As the years went by, I developed into a better Director/Producer (and thus my projects/deliverables got better). I shriek once in awhile when dig out some of those dusty old projects that I used think were so cool and great; only to realize that they were substandard stepping stones to the quality level that I now produce (which I’m sure I will feel the same way about years from now).

I know for a fact that some of my old grinder clients still use videos that I produced for them 12-16 years ago. I am thankful that my name is not on them in case prospective new clients see them (with my name on them). Chances are slim that it would happen (we shot S-VHS and edited on ¾-inch tape back then) but now, with this new fancy medium called the “Internet,” videos could be out there for every one on Earth to see forever!

Just my thoughts on this…

Bruce

Bruce Bennett
Bennett Marketing & Media Production, LLC

[Mike Smith]

Hi Peter

I agree that this is a no-win – you are unlikely to see more business from this, whatever. There’s not a lot of point in making waves – you could be floating new projects.

But as background:
I am UK based. Under our current legal system (but take professional advice before taking action), unless you have a contract that specifies differently, UK law will regard the copyright holder in a production as the producer – you. More, you are likely to have “moral rights” in the work, though you may have to made a written declaration that “asserts” those rights to protect them. Moral rights include your right to object to or prevent interference with or defacement of your work.https://www.gillhams.com/articles/140.cfm

If your funder credits were a contractual requirement from the funding bodies, which they may well be, then perhaps those funders would be interested to know that the work they paid for and you produced is being distributed. When I have worked on projects with funding from public bodies, it has often been a condition of funding that their credit receive appropriately prominent crediting.

So if you wanted to spend (waste!?) the time making life difficult for this organisation, you probably could: but is it time to swallow it and look to whatever’s’ next?

[Peter Rooney]

Very good advice and I believe you have a point and I have a case. At the moment what has happened is shabby. Spend quite a bit of money paying me to produce work which has been at a whole different level in terms of creativity, research, production etc than what they had been used to before hiring me, then tell ‘teccie’ in the corner of the office, who does a neat little sidleine in pirate DVS ( copied in the office ) to rip my work and doctor it.
These aren’t corporate promotional projects or advertising, it about documenting youth work projects.
All this before there was ANY dispute, disagreement, at all. I just don’t get it, what they got was a ripped mpeg2, which he converted to AVI, which was then converted to an FLV, CRAP! Why do it when I’d always done any extra reproduction in the past for free.
The funders, including International Fund for Ireland, all had their credits intact, everyone’s credits were retained but the really small, simple line of text at the end which said I did the graphics, additional archive material, photography, editing and authoring, the whole project.
Thank you for the explicit wording in your response, I’ll study it before deciding what to do.
As you all said, it’s certainly time to move on from this lot. But maybe I’ll bite her before moving on.
Peter

[Steve Wargo]

[Peter Rooney] “credits were a list of funding bodies who funded the project, a music company who gave me personally permission to include their music on the video, and lastly my name as the editor, graphics, archive material supplied by etc. “

Now you’re talking. If they ditched the names of the funding bodies, they may fixed themselves pretty good. The music people could also have a case about the “exchange” rule. The exchange rule is in place when someone gives you something in exchange for something else. They exchanged music for a credit.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

[Kevin Hanley]

First of all, the people who call to ask you how to do what you do so that they don’t have to pay you to do it….total waste of time and energy.

You will be happier, more productive, and more successful without clients like this. I recommend dropping it an moving on, using this as a lesson on why you shouldn’t do anything (dubs, etc.) for free, and more importantly, the fact that the clients who pay the least actually expect the most.

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Peter, Hey Mike.

I am based in the UK too.

Firstly, I would not have given anything away for free to start with – not without attaching some kind of value to it.

Secondly, “Local Public Body” – are they NGO, government or? In any case, the boss must have a bigger boss, who again has an even bigger boss – I would send a CD-Rom with the flv to the chairman and point out that you got “fired” for offering to do a proper job for free and that if you had wanted to, you could’ve pushed for credits through the courts and thereby creating an embarrassment for all parties involved, including the chairman (For all we know, the person trying to rip your DVD in the first place, could be the secret lover of the boss and the new video producer of the organisation? ;-). At least you’re owed an apology for being nice.

Also, supply the communication (hopefully you have an email) where the client specifies the 20 DVD’s. I.e. you never had an agreement of using it on-line or for any other purpose than the 20 DVD’s.

Finally – shop them to the MCPS, Directors Guild, Bectu and who-ever else might want to black-list them – maybe not, just move forward and forget about these guys.

But seriously, as Ron says with his Grinders speech, this went wrong when you pulled your trousers down at the first meeting.

All the Best
Mads
London, UK

Mac Million Ltd. – HD Production & Editing
Please watch our latest video on Data Protection at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVyv_lTywwc
Blog: https://blog.myspace.com/bigflopproductions

Some contents or functionalities here are not available due to your cookie preferences!

This happens because the functionality/content marked as “Google Youtube” uses cookies that you choosed to keep disabled. In order to view this content or use this functionality, please enable cookies: click here to open your cookie preferences.

[Peter Rooney]

“this went wrong when you pulled your trousers down at the first meeting”
I think I’ll just sue you instead:-)
Trousers is it? Who said anything about trousers?. UK based, not north of Hadrian’s walll , by any chance. Faintly reminds me of a popular ditty among the ginger tribes up there, something like
‘Donald where’s your troosers’.
She’s the Director of the organization, it’s a charitable ‘quango’ but is answerable to a board, a ‘governing body’. At the moment I did everything right and she’s reacted off the charts at being caught out being cheap and unprofessional. If I react aggressively by making waves with her board the thing will undoubtedly swing 180 so I look like I’m attacking her and all of a sudden I’ll be in the wrong.
That’s how these things go. I wouldn’t want to allow her the satisfaction of turning this around so she gets off the hook, that’s the only satisfaction I’ll get from this.
Peter

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Peter.

Join the queue, I am already taking up one judges time full time, so why not – btw: I misquoted Ron, that won’t go to court, but I won’t enter dark streets either, the Cowdog might just bite me ;-D

I had a similar situation last year with an in between production company that on top of running from their bill sold me down the river to their end client for their mistakes (very BIG end-client). To make the story short, I subsequently through another third party went back and did another job for the end client, which ended very, very well and put me in the frame for their next job – so there is plenty of different ways of saying “thank you” – maybe you should contact a local competing “charitable quango”, and do a job that is so memorable that the rest of the community can not avoid using you for future projects?

Don’t get mad – get even!

All the Best
Mads
London, UK

Mac Million Ltd. – HD Production & Editing
Please watch our latest video on Data Protection at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVyv_lTywwc
Blog: https://blog.myspace.com/bigflopproductions

Some contents or functionalities here are not available due to your cookie preferences!

This happens because the functionality/content marked as “Google Youtube” uses cookies that you choosed to keep disabled. In order to view this content or use this functionality, please enable cookies: click here to open your cookie preferences.