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Overnight hours shooting rates
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Thanks Bill,
I’ve been do that for about 25 years.
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[David Roth Weiss] “for straight time night shoot, you’d be … labeled a prima donna.”
Yup. That’s me. Prima Donna all the way. From my limited experience all night shoots, to be done properly, screw up the day before, the day of and the day after. That’s why I do what I can to avoid them. (I also don’t sleep well on planes so I build in an extra, get acclimated day when flying to Europe. Some people can hop off the plane and do a regular day of business. I find I’m not anywhere close to 100% so I do what I can to avoid being put in that situation.)
The majority of our work is in factories where the machines we’re there to shoot earn between $2,000 to $10,000 or more per hour. Therefore when they have to be stopped, or specifically tasked for shooting, it’s usually in the middle of the night or the machine’s manufacturer is buying the time from the plant. This forces a serious sense of purpose and efficiency on the shoots.
One of my less than satisfactory shoots several years back involved a plant where we were only allowed to work between 3 and 7 am. I came into the shoot after a full day of regular work so by the time we started at 3 am I’d been awake nearly 22 hours and, by the time we wrapped, awake for over 26 continuous hours. In the material the focus wasn’t what it should be in places and in other places the edge of a flag got into a couple of shots — all the kind of stuff that can happen when one is feeling like the walking dead and not paying strict attention to detail. So for me the lesson was to begin shifting one’s body clock a day or two before and try to become a night owl who has at least had some amount of sleep.
As to shooting in retail locations, years ago when I did this, on a couple of occasions we shot our wide masters in the store location and constructed a faux store in the studio for the close-ups and medium shots. Probably a slightly more expensive way to go, but a lot less pressure.
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[Nick Griffin] ” From my limited experience all night shoots, to be done properly, screw up the day before, the day of and the day after. That’s why I do what I can to avoid them. “
That’s a whole different discussion Nick… Sure, most of us would prefer to be at home at 3am, warmly tucked into our comfy beds, preferably next to a warm and cuddly person (or dog), but they call what we do for money “work” for a reason… It’s not play. Unfortunately, there are simply times when night shoots are unavoidable, as in scripts that call for events that happen outside in the dark.
Here in LALA Land there isn’t a single human being who hasn’t worked a night shoot at least once, and as I mentioned before, unless the same company doesn’t give you a proper turn-around (12-hours off in between), there’s also not a single person who would even think about charging more for a night shoot.
It may sound like I’m being too tough using the term “prima donna” for anyone thinking about adding a surcharge for a night shoot, but that’s not just me talking. If there were a production manager forum or first A.D. forum you’d get 100% agreement on this subject.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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[David Roth Weiss] “t may sound like I’m being too tough using the term “prima donna” for anyone thinking about adding a surcharge for a night shoot,”
I’m certainly not a “prima donna” as a matter of fact when I was bringing crews to work overnight, as an in-house director, for a retail establishment I paid the crew more. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with that. That’s why I asked. So let’s quit adding labels to people. Shall we?
Also we’ve all had horror stories of Murphy’s law situations when shooting overnight. Thanks for your help though.
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Greg, don’t get your feathers ruffled, I wasn’t calling you a prima donna; I was giving you the professional advice you asked for, and warning you that other professionals (your clients included) might well consider you a prima donna. It’s clear you don’t like the label, which is understandable; I was only helping you to avoid it.
For the record, I have thirty-four years of experience working professionally in Hollywood, and was a working director in the DGA. What I have offered you is not an opinion and it’s not my version of reality, it’s the reality of this business. Feel free to take it or leave it.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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No problem David. I also have over 25 years of experience. Meaning it takes a lot to “ruffle my feathers”.
I appreciate your help and advice. Have a great day.
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And earlier this afternoon when David saw my name on his caller ID he answered the phone “Prima Donna Productions.”
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As a small production company that often does overnight shoots, I had to throw in my 2 cents.
My take on this: If your calendar is open and your not having to say “no” to any shoots the following day, I say a fair rate for shooting overnight is your day rates per 10 hours. If on the other hand your extremely busy and you know your going to have to move other shoots around and say “no” to other shoots, than charge the client an addition percentage for the overnight project. If I were doing a shoot where travel would eat a day from my schedule this would probably fall in the “Half Day” rate for labor only.
Another point ….. how big is the client and budget. If your doing a national commercial for a large chain, I would think they wouldn’t balk at paying an additional fee for the overnight shoot. If it’s a small mom and pops store in your community and your hoping to work with them in the future on more projects, you may have to suck it up and do the job overnight for a straight 10 hour production rate.
My take on doing business is to be a “problem solver” for my clients. In the case of shooting in a retail store, I may have suggested shooting overnight to the client so they would not loose a day of business, thereby putting their needs fist and foremost. If I knew at the time of suggesting an overnight shoot that it would cost an additional amount for the crew, I would bring it up in the preliminary discussion and allow the client to weigh the “Cost of an Overnight shoot VS closing the Store for the Day”. The important point here is putting their needs first and letting them decide the best alternative.
One final thought…… I see this “point of view” issue come up fairly often in our business. Their are many craft people that have more of a union mentality when it comes to shoots. When the minute hand crosses the 10hour mark, overtime will be charged. There are others (like myself) that try to look at things from the client’s perspective and will be a little more flexible. The end result often is a client that’s is appreciative and will call you again. In this case you may say to the client……. “We would normally charge a fee for an overnight since the guys can’t work the next day, but in this case we know your on a tight budget…. so …..” or you could say “If we do the overnight, my guys will charge a additional half day…. I wish there was a way we could avoid this but… they miss the next day etc.”
Hope my rather long rant helps?
Bill Paris
Producer/Director of Photography
Crew Hawaii Television
http://www.crewhawaii.com -
I feel that every situation has it’s own set of rules. There are times when extra charges apply and sometimes not. Many times, I will charge extra for my crew and not myself and this tends to go over big with good clients. Of course, this is an incentive to call us in the future and old clients are the bulk of our business these days.
All things considered, you just have to do what’s fair for everyone, especially yourself. And I’ll take repeat business over a few bucks any time.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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