Overexposed windows, scrims, gels and tungsten lighting

[Michael Palmer]

Here’s the long and short to your question, order some corrective gel (Nd6-9, full-1/2 CTO), use daylight balance lamps, HMI or Kino 5600k (adding 1/8-1/4 CTO to warm them if you like) or add 1/2 CTB on tungsten units you may already have, find a look by using a real monitor (again all of these were discussed by many professionals here) and decide for yourself as the person in charge what this look is going to be. This will give you the experience you need to be a DP, and the chills at night wondering if you will ever work again based on your choices for this project. You have been given the keys to success from the others here (including myself) so run with it.

And please accept my apologues as I find this forum the hardest for me to hold my emotions with concerns to those who stand at the camera without sufficient experience. Video has opened the door for too many who can afford a camcorder and what really pains me is the inexperienced people asking eliminatory questions.

I have given you my thoughts concerning your camera choice on another forum
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/142/860852#860951
and here I find it very hard to be compassionate to those asking for advice for eliminatory DP decisions. Lighting is a timeless craft that you must work with to find the right look for every project.

Good luck with your new 170 and best of luck with the windows.

[Tim Ryan]

Re: Overexposed windows, scrims, gels and tungsten lighting
by Michael Palmer on Dec 12, 2008 at 12:47:29 am

“And please accept my apologues as I find this forum the hardest for me to hold my emotions with concerns to those who stand at the camera without sufficient experience. Video has opened the door for too many who can afford a camcorder and what really pains me is the inexperienced people asking eliminatory questions.”

————–

Michael, I’m so confused by your mixed messages and the pain my eliminatory questions appear to be causing. You provide what comes off as sincere advice (albeit redundant, as it was answered earlier by others – without insult). Then, you offer an apology followed by some additional jabs for requesting “eliminatory DP” advice.

Please don’t reply to my posts if they are causing you so much pain and frustration. Life’s too short for such drama!

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[John Fishback]

Your outside light will change thru the day, and day-to-day as was alluded to by an earlier post. You might want to have different frames of different nd that could be easily changed out when a cloud covers the sun or you have a rainy day, etc. The tent suggestion helps eliminate this issue. Also, be sure to budget some time during the day to make these changes. The “real world” always slows down a shoot.

John

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[Dennis Size]

Congratulations Tim. You’ve created a hell of a lot of banter with your simple little post (which I suppose is the purpose of COW and these FORUMS).
You’ll have to forgive those of us who sometimes tire of the same old elementary questions (especially when they’ve been asnwered more than once over the past few years this LIGHTING FORUM has been in existance).
Although a lot of great advise was shared — much of it obviously beyond your experience level — no one really answered your question.
Regarding the ROSCO SCRIM #270, the answer is yes. I’ve used it extensively for a number of light reduction aplications, and it will definitely solve the problem of your light intensity — but not your color temperature difference of daylight exterior to your interior tungsten fixtures (which you apparently are locked into using).
You never said if you had access to the outside of these windows which would be the ideal place to put the ROSCO scrim against. You also never said what the background scenery was — and if it was worth even seeing — otherwise appropriately designed kitchen curtains on the windows would be an obviously suggestion.
Buy a color correction gel that solves both your problems. GAM and ROSCO (and I believe LEE) make a combination CTO/.6ND color media that will be your best solution. It comes in large rolls. There’s also a CTO/.3ND. Follow Mark Suszko’s excellent instructions for applying it to the windows. If you have exterior access you can save time and just tape it tightly to the window frame.
The use of the CTO would negate the need to color correct your lights — which should still be diffused.
I would still recommend curtains (perhaps even shears) just for a more realistic design sensibility (not to mention reflection control).
If the sun intensity is way too bright use your ROSCO SCRIM in addition to the CTO/.6ND.
Have fun….enjoy the food.
DS

[John Sharaf]

Everyone (including Mr. Size) is being very blasee about the application of the ND (or combination 85Nd gel) on the outside of the windows. Obviously you want to do it on the outside to minimize reflections of you lighting instruments, but depending on the type of window, it might be difficult or even impossible to attach the gel so that it doesn’t wrinkle and/or blow in the wind. Sometimes it takes cutting it to fit the panes (like on a window with many small panes in frames) and still this might require black paper tape to fix leaks. I’ve usually found ND9 (three stops) to be the correct amount (using daylight HMI’s inside) but that’s another issue. The ultimate solution is Plexi panels (either ND or 85 combinations) which cost about $200 for a 4×8′ piece and this solves all the problems, and with careful handling and storage are the ideal solution for reuse (as you mentioned on successive weekends). It’s unlikely you’ll be able to reuse or store the gel without destroying it, so I believe, even though the initial cost might be significant, in the long run this might be the best and most elegant solution.

JS

[Tim Ryan]

thanks Dennis and everyone for the amazing advice. This is what makes Creative Cow such a great resource for both seasoned veterans as well as newbies.

I do have access to the exterior windows. Sheer curtains and gels seem like the easiest (and most affordable) way to go. Thanks for addressing the specific question with
advice on the correct scrim & gels to purchase.

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[Bob Cole]

Great advice all through this thread. I appreciate the newbies asking the questions I’m sometimes a little reluctant to ask myself — and the veterans who take their time to answer.

On balance, I think the best course is to frame out all but one window, and tent-light that one carefully.

fwiw: The cooking show my wife likes SEEMS to be set in a home kitchen, but if you look closely you’ll see that the shadows and light in the window never changes.

Authentic window light could change at any time, possibly causing continuity problems. You’ll have so much to keep track of during production that you should try to reduce the variables as much as possible. With cooking, you can’t really do all the wide shots with the window first, then all the cu’s.

Look at, and record for careful scrutiny, every cooking show you can. Then imitate the ones you admire.

Bob C