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OT: How do you present work-in-progress?
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[Oliver Peters] “[Steve Connor] “Cool your jets Andy, no video tutorials needed here”
Agreed. Let’s not devolve the discussion into an FCPX vs PPro thing.”
No FCPX VS Premiere Pro here.
After reading several of Bill’s comments I was hoping to see something revolutionary and extremely unique to FCPX. I am not bad mouthing his methods. I use the Master Clip effects all the time and batch paste them. In fact I have a video about a minor bug (link below) when using the Master Clip Effect. I honestly was expecting something more than what I have been doing. That is why I thought a tutorial might be wise since I am still new to FCPX and thought I may have missed something. Having said that it appears Premiere and FCPX can offer the editor the same method. I think it is worth mentioning Premiere Pro can do the same thing because some Premiere Pro users might not be aware that it can. I think it is a good idea if we are all on the same page. To show everyone how much I love to glorify Adobe I have posted yet another link of myself badmouthing Premiere Pro. Having said that the bug was not always there and it may not affect the Mac OS.
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I think what might be more salient to the thread is that clients in general (in my opinion) are less tolerant of unpolished rough cuts than they might have been in the past. In part, this is due to the fact that production technology has changed along the way.
For instance, it used to be that the first pass was a cuts-only rough with burn-in. In those days, cameras didn’t shoot log profiles, so you started with a look that was pretty close to final – set in-camera as Rec 709 by the DP/videographer. Now, many cameras shoot some type of log profile. If you work with a production that has a mix of camera formats, it’s quite likely that you’ll also have a mix of different log profiles, as well as some with and some without.
Today’s equivalent to the rough cut that you might have turned in a few years ago – which probably looked pretty decent back then – will look awful today, unless you put some effort into color correction before the client sees it. If you don’t, at best, you’ll have to add some caveats for the client to understand what they are looking at. At worst, the client is completely taken out of it and will have lots of comments over things that shouldn’t be an issue, like basic color correction.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Oliver Peters] “At worst, the client is completely taken out of it and will have lots of comments over things that shouldn’t be an issue, like basic color correction.”
In my experience, even if you tell clients exactly what stage the edit is at and what they shouldn’t comment on, a lot of time they still comment on it anyway.
Wherever possible I try to deliver edits that look as finished as possible, even if it involves rough grades that will be removed before final grading.
Fortunately modern NLE’s make simple grading very easy
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[Bill Davis] “Does that help?”
Yes, between you post and some others I have a better idea. Thank you.
-Andrew
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[greg janza] “[Bill Davis] “The correction is “general” to all NLEs – but how it integrates WITH range-based tagging to enhance the FCP X workflow is specific.”
I don’t think that’s any different than attaching a LUT to a clip at the master clip level in Premiere so that any and all usage of that clip will always have the LUT attached.”
Even the subclips in Premiere Pro will have the master clip effect applied.
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[Walter Soyka] “A rather broad question, but how do you present your WIPs to clients or stakeholders?
What do you hope to get out of a review? What level of roughness or polish do you aim to provide early on? How much does color/mix affect your WIPs? What process or guidelines do you put around review? What tools do you use?”
Same back to you.
What do you do?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Same back to you. What do you do”
Most of our work is design-led, so we are maybe a bit different than most of the other posters here. Generally, we try to fail as fast as possible. The purpose of early reviews is to test ideas: we want to push the boundaries of the input (or establish an anchor when input is minimal), to learn what works and what doesn’t.
Because the polish IS the work, we try to break a whole piece down into smaller chunks rather than doing the whole thing and hoping for the best. It’s really hard to nail the level of detail just right, and it depends a lot on who will be reviewing the work. An outside creative director has a different tolerance for using their imagination than an end client might (but every so often, those roles reverse, just to keep us on our toes). Whenever we share something for review, we first seek general input, then ask some specific questions to learn more about the impact of the decisions we make.
Our approach to a project varies according to its requirements. Sometimes we’ll start with moodboards, then storyboards, then animatics, then final production. Other times, when we have a better sense of what’s required upfront, we’ll dive right in.
We try to show final color early in process, but final mix later.
For review tools, we’re a mix of Wipster and Frame.io, depending on the client. We’re currently looking to transition completely to Frame.io for video, but Wipster is tempting me back with multi-page PDF reviews. We’re also developing a custom tool for previsualization.
The thing that surprised me most about this thread is how many folks seem to charge straight ahead, with one solution in mind. We find clients expect options and value exploration of multiple ideas.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “The thing that surprised me most about this thread is how many folks seem to charge straight ahead, with one solution in mind. We find clients expect options and value exploration of multiple ideas.
“It’s all about the pre pro Walter. I tend not to roll a single frame until there is a script and or shot sheet.
The time for “exploration” is in that process, not the day of the shoot. That’s not to say that you can’t add stuff during production. We do that all the time but by this stage we should all be on board with the general concept and goals.
After pre pro and production, there doesn’t tend to be many surprises in post.
“Options” can cost money and these days budgets are tight.
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[Walter Soyka] “The thing that surprised me most about this thread is how many folks seem to charge straight ahead, with one solution in mind. We find clients expect options and value exploration of multiple ideas.”
I think the charging straight ahead approach is an unfortunate necessity in some aspects of the industry because clients want to comment on something that looks like nearly finished product even though it’s just the first pass.
Some people can look at paint swatches and decided what color to paint a room. Other people need to see a bit of paint on the wall. Other people need a whole wall painted. Other people need the whole room painted, furniture placed, and drapes hung before they can start the decision making process.
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[Tony West] “It’s all about the pre pro Walter. I tend not to roll a single frame until there is a script and or shot sheet. The time for “exploration” is in that process, not the day of the shoot. That’s not to say that you can’t add stuff during production. We do that all the time but by this stage we should all be on board with the general concept and goals.”
That makes sense. How does exploration work for you in pre-pro?
[Tony West] “After pre pro and production, there doesn’t tend to be many surprises in post. “Options” can cost money and these days budgets are tight.”
For us, working on projects with a lot of synthetic assets, post is production. Clients expect to see options because they’re putting money into the project and want to know they’re getting the best work they can afford.
It’s really interesting to me how similar our work may seem on the surface, but how different the expectations and process can be.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn]
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