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OT: Apple to drop Mac Pro?
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[Herb Sevush] “[Steve Connor] “You’ve always been able to do that, if that’s so great why use Apple in the first place?”
Because of FCP. It was the sole reason I ever bought a Mac in the first place. With it’s demise, it looks like I’m back in the land of hot rods.”
If that was my only reason to use a Mac, I think I’d be joining you!
“My Name is Steve and I’m an FCPX user”
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Because they had hardware and software in the past that suited my needs. With the demise of FCP, Color etc and the possible dropping of the Macpro that isn’t the case anymore so I simply move on to find what I need without bending backwards.
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[Walter Soyka] “Do you want multiple processors? You need Xeons, because the i7 does not support multiple sockets. With multiple processors come increased power consumption and heat production, so you must add bigger power supplies and cooling systems. You also need more RAM slots, error-correcting RAM to fill them, and faster memory/CPU busses.”
And what makes you think that one needs a “tower” for that. I disagree. I think you’ll find the ability to put 12 or 16 cores into a smaller unit sans PCIe slots and internal hard drive expansion. I think Apple is capable of working out the cooling and power needs. I think industrial design and engineering is their forte.
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Bill, maybe we’re just arguing out of habit now. I don’t disagree with you that computers should be no bigger than needed and should have modular expansion.
You’re right on that Watson didn’t use towers, with extreme expansion available inside the case. However, Watson did use exclusively high-performance hardware — the same sort of electronics found in servers and workstations, not miniaturized PCs.
For more on what I’m thinking there, see my post in another thread about how workstation hardware is more than expansion [link].
I am not arguing for the tower form factor itself. I’m arguing for the big, hot components which require larger power and cooling solutions, and therefore larger cases. I’m arguing that it’s not the 4 PCIe slots that make the Mac Pro case bigger than a Mac Mini case.
Given the choice of the same performance in half the space, or twice the performance in the same space, I’d choose performance. Others would prioritize space. They’re different requirements with different solutions.
Simple as that.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Craig Seeman] “And what makes you think that one needs a “tower” for that. I disagree. I think you’ll find the ability to put 12 or 16 cores into a smaller unit sans PCIe slots and internal hard drive expansion. I think Apple is capable of working out the cooling and power needs. I think industrial design and engineering is their forte.”
I don’t need a tower, and I’m not arguing for a tower. I am arguing against unnecessary miniaturization at the expense of performance.
Open up a 12-core Mac Pro and look at the power supply and cooling system for those two 6-core Xeons. It takes space! It can and will be miniaturized, but by then, there will be 24- or 32-core designs suitable for the old, larger form factor.
I don’t disagree that Apple excels at industrial design, but high-density computing is a huge market that plenty of other companies have a lot of experience in.
Faster, smaller, cheaper — pick two.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “Bill, maybe we’re just arguing out of habit now. I don’t disagree with you that computers should be no bigger than needed and should have modular expansion.
“You’re completely right about the “out of habit” deal.
I don’t actually see it as “arguing” – more just discussing the possibilities and clarifying thinking when you perceive that someone is taking what you’re writing the wrong way. It’s a difficulty in the world of instant written on-line communications – since without the benefit of “tone” a whole LOT of stuff in comes across as potentially “argumentative” when it likely often isn’t meant that way at all.
Peace.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Walter Soyka] ” don’t need a tower, and I’m not arguing for a tower. I am arguing against unnecessary miniaturization at the expense of performance.
Open up a 12-core Mac Pro and look at the power supply and cooling system for those two 6-core Xeons. It takes space! It can and will be miniaturized, but by then, there will be 24- or 32-core designs suitable for the old, larger form factor.”
When I mention a MiniPro type I don’t at all mean at that size. I am thinking of a much bigger box. That’s why I mentioned an image (maybe in another thread) of a MacPro on its side, top and bottom handles gone, sans PCIe (except for GPU and one other) and hard drive expansion (except for SSD on one traditional large storage hard drive). It’s a Mini form factor (as in rectangle) but much bigger. I’m thinking of something that might be a couple of rack units (which is larger than the Mini of course). The heat the drives generate (if you had 4 installed for example) will be gone and that’ll help a bit. Apple will have the challenge of air flow/cooling in a smaller space but I don’t think this would be as “confined” as a Mini is.
BTW just as point of reference a top BTO MacMini is
i7 dual core
SDD 256GB
HD 750GB 7200RPM
Radeon 6630 256MBIt’s 7.7″ x7.7″x 1.4″
I don’t own one but I believe they moved the power “wart” internal. If that’s the case it has to be handling head better than the previous Mini.
The box would have to be much bigger to sustain i7 6 and 12 core and a much better GPU. An additional PCIe slot would add some internal space and require some “air.” I’m thinking of something that fits into a 19″ rack unit and is at least a couple or 3 RU in height. This is a much bigger box than a Mini.
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[Craig Seeman] “When I mention a MiniPro type I don’t at all mean at that size.”
Craig, I apologize. I totally misunderstood, and I thought you were envisioning a much, much smaller case.
I do still think it’d be a tragic loss to drop all Xeon-powered Macs for the i7 line. Why give up all that performance potential for a marginally smaller case?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “I do still think it’d be a tragic loss to drop all Xeon-powered Macs for the i7 line. Why give up all that performance potential for a marginally smaller case?”
What’s wrong with we all buy the same keyboard, the display real-estate we need, then we buy the CPU box we want? Need a uber GPU or 10 for game development? Hang another box on the line. I get to have 2-6 i7s for the work I need. Walter gets to have 50 Xenon’s in his array. The cooling and the power supplies come matched to what each box requires? Isn’t that a whole lot more efficient than just building boxes of fixed stuff that lock you into a rigid system until it becomes dysfunctional? The big difference is that we’re not trying to stuff everything into the same case or even the same rack.
You pick OSX- or iOS as you like. Heck, with fast enough pipes, and global management capabilities like Grand Central and the Core Suites, run iOS on your iPad and OS-X on the “render box” next to your array as you need.
I’m sure there’s complexities I don’t understand here – but the “componantization” of the computer is really no different than what happened in Stereo systems in the 1970s. And that sold a WHOLE lot of great music playback systems for generations.
FWIW.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Craig Seeman] Put your MacPro on it’s side. Get rid of the handles and legs. Then cut the height down since it’ll only have two PCIe slots (one populated with GPU). You’re losing the optical drive as well as all the internal hard drive expansion. They’ll have to deal with air flow/cooling but I think it’s possible if not likely for Apple to head in this direction.
It’s also possible that Apple will leave traditional computing entirely and move fully into the iOS ecosystem.
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