One last question: preamp/recorder on a budget

[Eric Toline]

Rodney,

You’re most likely correct about the H4 input not handling peak levels very well. The only thing I could suggest is to try to keep the H4 levels below -5dbfs. I would assume you’re using a -20dbfs reference level on the H4. BTW The TA3 output connections follow the settings of the XLR outputs. I have a Fostex FR2LE recorder and feed it line level from my 442 with no problems using the reference settings as above.

Eric

[Rodney Morris]

Yes, I always mix using the hybrid metering system. I got used to that system with the Durrough loudness meters at my last job. Much more useful information that way.

Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer

[Rodney Morris]

Yes, I do use -20dBfs for my reference level on the H4. The distortion happens only on the transients. And yes, I am aware that the TA3 outs follow the switching for the XLR. It’s crazy that I have such a hard time inputting levels into the H4. I also had a situation this past summer when I was feeding the D.O.’s of two of the 442’s inputs into an H4n and I had a lot of trouble getting the sound to be acceptable. Finally had to set the output of the D.O.’s to mic level (menu setting on the 442) and input them into the Zoom through the 1/4″ (line) inputs. Nothing else was acceptable.

Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer

[Tony Connoly]

Very interesting dicussion. Thank you. I may look at the Marantz PMD661 to avoid these issues.

[Ty Ford]

Rodney,

I’m wondering if the HN4 line level is -10 consumer line level rather than 0 or +4. Have you tried using the 442’s -10 output and calibrating to -20?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Watch Ty play guitar

[Rodney Morris]

Yes, Ty I have tried using the -10 line level settings without any success on my H4. The H4n that I used this summer belonged to the client and I was feeding it using the D.O.’s of my 442. When I had the D.O.’s set to mic level and inputting them into the H4n on the XLR jacks (mic level), tone at -20, I got distortion on the transients. When I selected line level for the D.O.’s and inputted into the H4n on the 1/4″ input (line level), tone at -20, I got distortion on the transients. The only way I could get acceptable audio was to use mic level out on the D.O. into the 1/4″ line level inputs of the H4n. If I have this much trouble feeding audio into the Zoom units, then how much more trouble will an amateur or a non-audio professional have with it?

Again, I could be doing something wrong. Any more suggestions, I’ll gladly accept them!

Did you find that beer you were looking for?

Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer

[Ty Ford]

Hey Rodney,

You know, there are a few pieces of gear that make you wonder how the company stays in business. I think you have covered all of the bases. Short of doing an elaborate test to determine at what level the inputs distort and building custom pads for standard mic and/or line level sources, I think you just cuss a lot and shake your head.

The Canon D5 and D7 cameras are funky this way as were the RED cameras.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS: I upgraded to a dirty gin/vodka martini with three olives. 🙂

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Watch Ty play guitar

[Tony Connoly]

Rodney,

Did the H4 XLR inputs work well for microphones at least?

600 is the top of my budget for a preamp and a recorder, but if I end up keeping it for a long time that would be ok. Some features that I like about the PMD 661 are (i) having two ways to get audio out at the same time (both headphone plug and 2xRCA), (ii) volume dial for the headphones, (iii) more batteries possibly means fewer problems with phantom power, (iv) dials for the L/R input level, and (v) big LCD screen. They are pretty basic things. It is bigger than the Zoom though.

[Rodney Morris]

Tony,
I have not used the H4n with external microphones. I’m sure it works very well in that situation. I’m pretty sure that I’m not using the H4 for what it was primarily designed to do.

Rodney Morris
Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer

[Tony Connoly]

I opted for the Marantz PMD661 just based on a ergonomics–I looked at the Zoom H4N and the Tascam DR100 at the store and didn’t like the build quality, the buttons, and the layout as much as the Marantz. It’s great to be able to hang the PMD661 over the shoulder especially with the specially designed case. I know it’s probably overpriced relative to its “features” (I guess the price would go down if they moved the production out of Japan like the other two companies did), but the store did throw in the very nice and very useful Marantz case for free.

I am very happy with the audio quality compared to what I had before. Finally, I can monitor my audio while recording it, I get almost no hiss, and the headroom is back to where it ought to be because the record levels aren’t set artifically low to control the hiss. Unlike what I’d read on the web, the quality of the internal mics is not bad, at least for dialogue, and there is surprisingly little handling noise while using the internal mics. The sound recorded off of the Rode NTG-2 is excellent.

Thanks for your help.