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Olympics Editing (not FCP-X)
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[alban egger] “Oh boy…you haven´t used it, have you?”
Nope, never opened it up. It hasn’t ever matched my workflow yet.
[alban egger] ” what if you need lots of In-Out that you want to use later and you might also want to “keyword / subclip” a bunch of the clips?”
What are the in-outs there for? To mark pieces of clips for further use? Well the I guess you haven’t read all of this thread so I’ll quote myself from earlier
Populate a master timeline – 5 seconds. Copy the timeline – 5 seconds. Now in this second timeline you set your first in-point at the beginning and skim along till you find something you like. Now set your outpoint and ripple delete, getting rid of what you don’t want. Keep skimming till you get to the end of the clip you like, set your next in point and continue. No holes, no gaps, by the time you have skimmed and marked your selects the rough cut is there and ready to go.
Why would I want to “keyword” a clip in Legend?
[alban egger] “It is hard to explain, but is simply a very different way of working than anything FCP7 offers in any way.”
I don’t doubt you here at all, but different is not necessarily better and better for you might not be better for me. Since people like Walter, Jeremy and David Lawrenece say that the skimmer is a great tool I believe them and I’ll definitely poke around with it when X becomes suitable to my workflow. But I still don’t see how this will be the end all and be all of my editing experience. As I’ve said ad nauseum, viewing large amounts of material quickly and easily has never been a problem for me in any NLE I ever worked with – EMC, *edit, PPro or Legend – and I have a long list of things I want improved in my editing workflow before I ever get around to improving
the skimmer.Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “I don’t doubt you here at all, but different is not necessarily better and better for you might not be better for me. “
I think this has been my key takeaway about FCPX from the past year. FCPX has some very powerful and appealing tools and features. But if they don’t fit your editorial and workflow requirements, then the drawbacks from all the things missing far outweigh any benefits. On the other hand, for those who can take advantage of FCPX’s new methods. the benefits seem huge.
“Fastest” and “best” are entirely subjective.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
This is the thread about medal rankings for competitive NLEs isn’t it?
Franz.
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Still works and still stable is a good argument but I don’t know if I agree with the concept that FCP was ever stable (maybe reliable is a better word.) I went to FCP (legacy, or legend as some folks now call it) like pretty much everyone else because of cost. Also when FCP came out it appealed to a lot of pissed off Avid editors. But I never forgot that Avid beat FCP all to hell with regard to media management. I can and always have been able drag anything, anywhere in Avid without fear of screwing something up. Try gathering up all your sequences in FCP 7 and putting them in a folder. It’s been a problem for years and one that Apple never addressed in any significant way. Not to mention the fact that on long form projects I must keep creating new projects lest they get large and corrupted. Kind of like the FCP X file bloat problem which, as far as I know, has yet to be dealt with. I have always liked Mac as a platform but after more than a year I am not feeling the love from Apple as far as broadcast and film workflows go. I guess we shall see.
Tim
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[Herb Sevush] “Why would I want to “keyword” a clip in Legend?
As I’ve said ad nauseum, viewing large amounts of material quickly and easily has never been a problem for me in any NLE I ever worked with – EMC, *edit, PPro or Legend
“keywording” is done in Legacy all the time: subclips, adding notes, making bins. All these tools in Legacy are “keywording”.
And for me going through large amounts of footage by double clicking every single file has always been a problem. Skimming is just so much more convenient you only realize its benefit once you worked with it and then stepped back to another NLE.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “This is the thread about medal rankings for competitive NLEs isn’t it?”
Tis whole part of the cow is about this golden medal, which belongs to FCPX….uhm…maybe MC…uhm…or should it go to PP…..uhm…..you know what: let´s give it to FCP7, because the others are 64-bit doped.
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[alban egger] “And for me going through large amounts of footage by double clicking every single file has always been a problem. “
Then why do it? Throw all your clips on a timeline and skim, or drag, away to your hearts content.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Then why do it?”
Hi
Because viewing disparate clips in a timeline disassociates them from their binning and browser-column information – which are easily searchable in the browser, much less easily in a sequence.As a film editor big rolls got broken up into labelled clips in bins. To have to join them back up at random into a long roll to view on the steenbeck was counter-productive. Everything had to be broken back up into the bins again to proceed with the editing process.
Instead the bins were placed near a bench with a handcranked viewer to work on in/out points and to get an assembly. Only when assembled into meaningful sections was the steenbeck’s viewing process valuable.
In NLE terms the same applies in the sort of stuff I edit, and making random ‘select’ timelines for viewing is very inefficient. In fact I always regarded it it a sign that the editor wasn’t really cut out to be an editor if he spent all his time ‘viewing’ at the steenbeck 😉
The art of editing in film and paper-offline linear tape days devolved around the ability of the editor to ‘memorise’ the initial impact of the first viewing of the footage, and thereafter working from the ‘metadata’ notes to build the final edited end-product.
Having to disassociate the clips from their metadata – restricting accompanying clip-info to what is accessible when you have it in a random-select timeline – seems to me to be very very counter-productive.
I just don’t have the powers of memory to be able to recall everything in a long ‘selects’ timeline days/weeks later as the edit proceeds. (So I never do it).
The browser and bin structure is where I want to go to find and quickly view stuff as I need it.
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It feels bizarrely off-topic to return to the theme of the Olympics, but I came across this and thought of you guys: What if all sports were shot like beach volleyball
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Paul –
Your’s is a lovely description of feature film editing and why upright Moviola’s lasted so long in the feature business. Who needs a Steenbeck when you have multiple assistants ready and able to make your cuts and string shots together using rewinds and a moviescope. Having grown up in the 16mm doc and industrial world the flatbed was at the heart of our technique and after the initial breakdown of film rolls into selects the bins were mostly used to keep track of trims. I sometimes had more shots hanging around my neck and shoulders then I had hanging on a pin. While you may turn up your nose at my technique I can assure you that you wouldn’t have lasted a week at my job with yours.
This thread was not about cutting features. It was about how you go about “geting thru” tons of footage in a short time. I believe the original description was getting thru 10 hours of footage in a 3 hour time frame. If you need to see your metadata as you cut, you are correct that searching thru bins is the way to go, and here is a place where X seems to shine. For those of us whose memories are a little clearer, where the initial impact of the first viewing of the camera panning thru the crowd isn’t quite so important, the organization of multiple selected timeline “reels” seems to do the trick.
Furthermore the analogy to film breaks down quickly. The downside of making select reels in film was that it slowed down your flexability. If a shot is hanging in a bin you can reach for it at any moment, for any sequence you are working on – once it’s committed to a reel, it’s inefficient to get at. With NLE’s this problem is moot – throw a shot in one reel, then you can throw it in another reel just as quickly. There is no reason in modern editing NOT to have your shots in select reels. You want to see the metadata within your tineline – turn your timeline into a bin – Ctrl A, drag to bin, done 5 seconds or less. I find searching individual clips in a bin to be disjointed, you obviously don’t. I see it as personal preference, you seem to see it as right way / wrong way.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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