Offline@29.97drop – to Online@23.98PSF, non-drop.

[Steve Covello]

You can master and compress for DVD in 23.98. no problem. Hollywood does it all the time. DVD players [miraculously] add pulldown upon playback.

Go into the Inspector in Compressor and go through the manual settings. you will see that you can compress to 23.98 or 29.97. This allows you to compress at a better setting for the same length of material versus 29.97 since there are less frames.

I would not recommend doing this for material mastered at 29.97. you will get frame jumps and flicker. Only do it if your master material is 23.98 already.

steve covello

[Mike Most — account bouncing, bad address]

Did you look at the numerical sequence as I suggested? Have you confirmed that the numbers really do represent drop frame, and not just non-drop numbers with a flag that says it’s drop frame? If the sequence is intact without the skipped frame numbers, everything is fine (as long as you make your sequence non-drop – FCP stupidly defaults to drop frame for new sequences at 29.97).

There is one other way you can fix this yourself even if the numeric sequence is wrong. For each clip, go into the Browser and find the original master clip. Open it in the Viewer, keeping it selected in the Browser. Assuming you brought all of these clips in starting at an even time code second (you’ll need to check the time code on the first frame) – but even if you didn’t – go to Modify/Time Code. Change either the first frame or the “current frame” (i.e., the one you’re parked on in the Viewer – make it an even second) to Non-Drop Frame by changing the pulldown in the Modify Timecode dialog. That should do it. Quicktime files do not have continuous tracks for time code – they only stamp the first frame, and all the subsequent frames are calculated based on the first frame and the type of timecode. So by keeping the time code the same, but changing the Drop Frame flag, you accomplish what you’re setting out to do. The EDL you generate should be fine for online once it’s converted to 24 frames, which as I previously mentioned, you can either do yourself (it’s one step in Cinema Tools) or have the online facility do (many of them just run it through either Cinema Tools or the Avid EDL manager). Based on what you’re saying you did (i.e., the tapes are non-drop but you identified them as drop frame when you digitized) this should work. Make sure to uncheck Drop Frame for all of sequences as well.

[Sean Oneil]

[Godfrey Pye] “So surely this means that I need to do an online session at 29.97 doesn’t it? Nothing would please me more than giving the problem to the post facility and letting those who made the mess pay to get out of it. But as a professional courtesy I feel I must give the on-line editor all the help I can.”

No. During the online session, you want to batch re-capture at 23.98, and then clean it up. After that, you can output 29.97, if you wish. This process adds new pulldown with clean 3:2 cadence.

But as Weevie said, you can also just do a 23.98 DVD.

Sean

[Daryl K davis]

I have edited over 60 TV episodes all shot film telecined to HDCAM at 23.98 and then downconverted to DVCAM at 29.97 NDF. I edit in 29.97 and then provide an edl to on-line facility. They transfer list to 23.98 in Cinema Tools and on-line 23.98 HDCAM.

No problems as of yet. I have never reverse telecined footage in Cinema Tools – no need to.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Godfrey Pye]

Well Daryl, this response gives me heart – and I thank you for it.

I have received much well-meant, educated assistance from many editors in answer to my original question. However, lots of it has been in disagreement as to where to go from here, so much so that my head has been spinning over the weekend with conflicting advice.

I’m going to take Daryl’s experience and run with it, mainly because it seems to be something my simple, PAL-only experienced brain can understand.

I have imported the DV tapes and edited in NDF (there are colons”:” and not semi colons “;” between the seconds and frames when I see the clips in the viewer).
However, I think I have screwed up in editing the piece with a DF timeline.
So if I can find a way of changing the timeline to NDF and then give an edl to the facility, then surely I will have have achieved the kind of satisfied nirvana that Daryl has enjoyed over 60 episodes?

Once again, a hearty thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion, it’s great to have editors so willing to give their hard-won experience to another editor who’s a complete stranger to them.

Now, how the hell do I change my timeline from DF to NDF – surely it’s not as simple as just unchecking that box…..?

Godfrey.

[Daryl K davis]

I actually edit the shows in a drop frame timeline only because they have to be right to the frame duration-wise. When the picture is locked I simply create a new NDF timeline with correct start timecode and copy past the entire project in there – making sure the “2-pop” lines up in the correct position.

I also do things like tidy up the timeline so the edl can be esaily created, break out all visual effects type of sequences (which may be temp for now) – keeping the correct ‘base’ layer in the timeline but creating seperate timeline of any other VisFX shots that may be required. Send a quicktime of the show on a firewire drive to the post house so they have an accurtae reference.

I also tidy up the audio tracks (a good thing to do is to put all sync dialogue that may have been replaced with “alt” takes on a track 9-10 so audio post has the original dialogue from the shot to compare to). I also create Quicktime references of the show and send along with the audio edls, omfs and any other files on a seperate firewire drive.

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DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
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[Godfrey Pye]

Daryl, you truly are the gift that keeps on giving.
This means I don’t have to do any recapturing, or change any timeline – just obey your good housekeeping tips when it comes to edl and backup QT’s.

Thank you so much for this, and thanks again.
I will now go ahead with renewed confidence.

My best.

Godfrey