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Null Object 2.0
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If the effects were applied like a pre-comp IT WOULD BE A PRECOMP…come on =P! All the rest you described are pre-comp alike functionality…
Effects/masks would be instances applied down the hierarchy…all the rest is the same. That’s it.
How do I expect THIS or THAT to behave? Just the same as I do in a pre-comp.
The nodal thingy is just the concept. I don’t want interfaces, nodes, wires or anything.
I want to be able to tell every layer within this group function to process the same effect (as if wired to a node), in this quick/lame example, the glow.
And hey…I’m not saying its simple from a developer’s POV. I’m just saying it would save me a lot of time.
Edit: And I know, big hardware impact. 500 glows against 1. But I prefer the machine doing it’s job instead of me. Again this is one example.
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[Cassius Marques] “If the effects were applied like a pre-comp IT WOULD BE A PRECOMP…come on =P!”
My point exactly. But what I was getting at is if effects don’t render like a pre-comp then in many cases they will render in a totally new and unexpected (“wrong”) way. Mass confusion ensues.
[Cassius Marques] “Effects/masks would be instances applied down the hierarchy…all the rest is the same. That’s it.”
You don’t think that would be confusing in any way? Say I want to use the Set Matte effect to punch a circular hole in the middle of this group and when I apply it instead every layer inside the group gets a hole punched through it. Same problem with masks.
So now users have a new dilemma: when do I pre-comp and when do I group? Instead of making the workflow more streamlined I think this is adding complexity.
[Cassius Marques] “I want to be able to tell every layer within this group function to process the same effect (as if wired to a node), in this quick/lame example, the glow.”
That’s not necessarily how nodes work though. A Glow node in Nuke, for example, takes exactly one input.
To apply a Glow to 500 footage items in Nuke you’d either need 500 glow nodes (like applying a glow to each layer inside a pre-comp) or to merge the 500 footage items together with a merge node before 1 glow (just like a pre-comp).
Darby Edelen
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I agree very much with this! Two feature AE could use badly is:
– Layer grouping. This could be handled with pre-comps but we are able to “fold out” the contents of these in each comp. This would make managing complex comps much easier.
– Alias layers and effects. I don’t know how often I end up having 3-4 copies of the same matte layer which in turns is a pre-comp of some video footage. I.e the matte is locked in time to footage in the main-comp and multiple layers rely on it as for example a matte. A manually updating everything if one needs to be changed. Same goes for effects where you might want two or more elements share identlicle amounts of what ever.
Some of the above can be handled with pre-comps and scripting but this can quickly turn into a spiderweb and with pre-comp you rapidly run into overview issues.
From talks with Adobe I think my point 1 is one of the most requested features users have. It’s just a massive undertaking for Adobe to sort out (something like rewriting the whole rendering pipeline). I would imagine “alias layers” could speed things up with rendering also since AE can render once and use a cached version for all other aliases. Not sure if this happens at the moment with multiple, identnical, instances of the same elements.
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[Darby Edelen] “You don’t think that would be confusing … Same problem with masks.”
It’s not a problem! It is a new option, that’s the whole point. And no, I don’t find it confusing.
[Darby Edelen] “So now users have a new dilemma: when do I pre-comp and when do I group? Instead of making the workflow more streamlined I think this is adding complexity”
which to use? read the help and understand what’s the difference. Is it adding complexity? perhaps adobe should strip away all the other complex features AE has then?
…seriously though, I may be oversimplifying things. But you’re overcomplicating them. Maybe you’re right and such a thing will never pop up, but I still hope Adobe will do something like that along the way. It’s for them to decide.
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IMO a pre-comp and a group could be the same thing. At least the ability to “fold out” a pre-comp in the main-comp would be vital.
That said I could see them being two separate features also. I don’t however think this is an issue to talk about when dealing with “new users”: AE is one of the more complex applications to get into in the Adobe-sphere as is. This wouldn’t really change anything, just make the app more user-friendly for advanced users.
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[Erik Lindahl] “IMO a pre-comp and a group could be the same thing. At least the ability to “fold out” a pre-comp in the main-comp would be vital.”
Two words: time-remapping.
What are you looking to do that isn’t covered by ETLAT?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Darby Edelen] “To apply a Glow to 500 footage items in Nuke you’d either need 500 glow nodes (like applying a glow to each layer inside a pre-comp) or to merge the 500 footage items together with a merge node before 1 glow (just like a pre-comp).”
Or you need some kind of effects instancing system, so you can apply the 500 glows individually, but have them all reference a single controller.
This is doable today with expressions, but surely there is room for improvement.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
This is doable with expression, which in its self is powerful, but for “alias” type of work it’s a clumsy solution.
It’s also not possible to have alias layers which is again a lacking feature. You can have two layers act identical with expression or linking but it’s again a very clumsy solution. Powerful, flexible but clumsy.
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Not sure what “ETLAT” is.
Not sure why time-remapping would change from how it works today. You can time-remap elements in a pre-comp, this would be done in the same way inside a “pre-comp group”.
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[Erik Lindahl] “I don’t know how often I end up having 3-4 copies of the same matte layer which in turns is a pre-comp of some video footage. I.e the matte is locked in time to footage in the main-comp and multiple layers rely on it as for example a matte. A manually updating everything if one needs to be changed.”
I’d like to see arbitrary track matte layer selection, not just fixed “layer above” use.
I’d also like more control over the render order for dependencies of compound effects, so things like inputs for Set Matte don’t need to be pre-comped.
But it doesn’t count if we just talk about it here — let’s file those feature requests!
[Erik Lindahl] ” I would imagine “alias layers” could speed things up with rendering also since AE can render once and use a cached version for all other aliases. Not sure if this happens at the moment with multiple, identnical, instances of the same elements.”
This does happen now with the new caching system.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events
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