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No Contract Was Signed — Client Pulling the Ol’ Rope-a-dope!
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[Michael Hancock] “[Bill Davis] “Paragraph 1 – you said “they paid full price for everything.” So in my book, they OWN everything. It’s theirs, not yours. Period. ”
From a legal perspective, that’s wrong. Unless you have a contract that explicitly states Work for Hire or that the client retains ownership, the footage and project files belong to the OP.
[Mark Suszko] “Contractually speaking, if you want to “own the donut”, and your other work product, you need that in writing, in advance, next time. And always get paid before you hand over the key element.”
Nope. They own the finished spot you give them to air. Everything else is owned by you. They have no legal claim over it.
“We can all play “amateur IP attorney” all we like. And yes, it’s true hat Title 17 is specific about “work for hire” ownership. – but in the present climate I think focusing on that is a huge mistake. It’s “inside baseball” in nearly all common business situations. I have nothing against anyone who wants to read up on the letter of the law, school themselves in “work made for hire” and “fair use” et al. It’s an excellent grounding. But in actual business transactions focusing on that will (at best) result in won skirmishes and lost wars.
You want to focus on the war. Which is building a profitable business.
So I view every work I do as exclusively the CLIENTS properly. With very few and very specific exceptions, I’ve learned the hard way that defending IP claims in my work is a losers game. I don’t want to have to budget for legal hassles, copyright defense or litigation. And those are necessary if you institute policies that favor ownership disputes.
I don’t’ want to do that. So the best way is to try to NEVER dispute ownership. And a policy of vesting ownership with the commissioning party in every possible transaction handily diffuses the bomb.
It also paints me in a VERY favorable light with clients. I’m the easiest guy to work with because I never dispute the ownership of anything. If you’re my client, large or small, and you want it? It’s yours. Uncontested.
And the funny thing is that I’ve learned that THIS actually protects me more than the iron-clad contract. Because the vendor who causes fewer hassles is the one that’s most often selected. Particularly today when anyone can work with anyone anywhere. 99 times out of 100, there will NEVER be a dispute. Win/win.
I’m delighted to give away the rights to my work with full payment because I believe that the knowledge I gained in doing the work in the first place is WAY more valuable than the work itself. Every successful commission makes me a better creator. Every successfully delivered job ends with me in possession of MORE KNOWLEDGE than I had when I started it.
I can create tangible work from ideas. But the tangible work, itself, isn’t the prize. The ability to create it is. And that can’t be “assigned” to anyone.
Now when I create for myself, that’s a different ballgame. I defend my IP on that to the teeth. But when I do commission work for others, the full ownership rights to the completed work always go with the commission.
And my life stays simpler because of it.
FWIW.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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Just a follow-up:
No contract means it is not legally work for hire. Regardless, I gave the footage to the client without complaint — I agree that it is about winning the war and not the battle.
Spoke with the client, too. I wasn’t fired, they’ve given me outstanding references to potential clients and my price line remains intact. A happy ending.
Overall, the response on CC has been fantastic — a very dedicated and helpful community. Thank you everyone. Your insights, points and suggestions have all been noted and taken to heart.
This has been a valuable lesson in pricing, communication and why it’s probably better not to post questions to forums when you’re in the middle of a paranoia-induced panic attack!
Cheers.
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What do you mean they own everything? They paid for the edits, not the source. Absent a specific agreement that the job is a work for hire, the video company owns the copyrights.
If you want to give your assets away, that’s your choice, but please don’t try to tell others seeking advice that just because the client paid full price, they own the ‘negatives’, it isn’t so.
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You’re absolutely right. This is an area of contention though, the question not being in who owns what (since work for hire status requires a contract or similar written agreement), but what action would return the most value. Keeping the footage and demanding to be paid for it would return some money but I’d lose a client for good and potentially damage my reputation. But handing over the footage would return good will and ensure my reputation remains intact. If we were speaking of millions of dollars here, then I’d probably get a lawyer, but my reputation outweighs the money in this case.
Have you been in a similar situation?
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[Charles Diaz] “Spoke with the client, too. I wasn’t fired, they’ve given me outstanding references to potential clients and my price line remains intact. A happy ending.”
That is a great outcome, so glad to hear that.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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I was in a situation like this early on in my career. The only difference was that I knew the client was a grinder, got ground up on the job I did for them, but was able to return the favor when they wanted the raw stuff.
Agreed that the best way sometimes is to just hand it over, but when people make statements that the client ‘owns’ it, just irks me.
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For the pricing, just know your costs and establish your rate. As for the negative, this will be the best time for you to start a contract which sets the outline the specifics and expectations for all parties involved. You can arrange and discuss with them the details and the extent on how they can use your negatives. Do your best to protect yourself. You as the creator have the right in the property you create. It is illegal for any unauthorized person or company to scan, copy, duplicate, manipulate, alter, etc. your work without your permission. The law specifically gives creators the right to copy, reproduce, distribute, display and create derivative uses of their work.
It is not unprofessional to inquire on your status with them. You can politely ask them where you stand. It is best to arrange a time to discuss the situation in-person. But don’t pose it as a threat; instead, “offer to have a conversation where you can provide input into their business and see how you can be of assistance.
Good luck.
Helen
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