New Macbook – Deliberately hobbled?

[Ben Holmes]

Winston

USB2 is no good for video capture/playback, as it sends data in packets, not continuously. It’s also not supported by the vast majority of consumer camcorders, unlike firewire. Even setting aside someone like me, who has bought into the entire Mac spectrum (I currently own a Mac Mini, iMac, MBP, and several Mac Pros) that’s a lot of consumers and prosumers to diss.

Again – ask yourself ‘why drop it’. If it’s because the NVidia chipset does not support it, then how is FW800 implemented on the new MBP? It certainly doesn’t require the ‘other’ gfx chip to be enabled to use firewire AFAIK.

Nope, sorry – this was a cold hard business decision by Apple to create an affordable MacBook Pro (one as I said that I and others would have bought instantly as a second machine) but then remove a key feature to maintain sales of the pro machines – because honestly, from a video point of view, setting aside Motion or Color (for which I recommend a tower anyway) the new MacBook would probably have done everything you would have needed it to, if it had a proper interface. Without it, unless you’re a gamer, it’s just an over-priced laptop to many many people.

Ben

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[Ken Summerall]

Ben,

I think that both you and Winston are right here. The problem is that you are looking at the macBook through the eyes of a pro, not a consumer. The MB is by all accounts a consumer machine. It is intended to be bought and used by the consumer. Same thing with the iMac, it is a consumer machine. Now that does not mean that professional are not using these machines, but that is a little like off-label prescription drug use. To get all hot and bothered because a consumer level machine does not have what you need as a pro is little ridiculous. I know that I am going against the flow here but who cares.

Is this another LISA moment for Apple? I doubt it. Look at what they have done in the past few years. After the release of several products a lot of folks have whined and cried and said that Apple had dissed someone or that they had made a bone headed move that may spell the end of the company. They released iPods with no firewire, did that stop the sale of iPods? Nope. They released the iPhone with no 3G, did that stop the sale of iPhones? Nope?

OK, enough of this. I have work to do. Pro work on Pro machines. I’ll keep my Mini to do stuff like post on forums.

K

[Winston A. cely]

I see what you’re saying about there still not being enough consumer camcorders that use USB as a digital interface with computers. Maybe that’s going to change, maybe not. Of course, most of the people putting up videos nowadays can just use their digital camera or digital SLR to capture video and use that via USB. (Take a look at Canon’s 5D MarkII as an example of where I think the future of video and still imaging is going).

I think Apple sees that the interface between video devices and computers is changing. Sure, in the short term this could be a drawback to many who want to use their existing FW capable camcorder, but it also opens the door for others to come to the rescue as far as solutions between old and new are concerned. If Apple sees changes in the market on the horizon, why not be a leader in the field?

Apple’s spent a lot of time and money creating iApps that don’t need the bandwidth that their (and others) pro apps need. Using an external drive for your video with iApps is really not necessary so there’s really no need for FW in that respect.

There are plenty of significant differences between the Macbook and the Macbook Pro to justify one being geared to consumers and one geared to pros. Maybe they aren’t as big as they should be, but these are first versions of these computers anyway and things are bound to evolve as they always do.

Cheers!

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

Sound it out: Nu-clear, not nu-cu-lar.

Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe

[Ben Holmes]

Yes – I could forsee the ‘market leader’ argument – I’m sure that’s how Apple will spin this. As it’s impossible to say what Apple’s actual motives are, there is nothing to be proved here – and I agree with everything you have said on one level. I think the decision Apple made to drop FW on the iPods is the most compelling argument – but that’s due to the fact that PC manufacturers don’t like paying the FireWire royalties that go to – er – Apple. It gets to add the ports for free on their own laptops!

As the previous poster said, these are not PRO machines, but that distinction is now really only in Apple’s heads. The Macbook is now a perfectly capable laptop with decent graphics. I’m afraid you’re just not going to convince me they chose NOW (when the iMac now has FW800 on it – another consumer machine, but then there’s no iMac Pro is there?!) to remove a port that served many pros and consumers without considering the damage the new MacBooks would do to sales of the MBP. My guess is many pro users (especially those working in audio AND video) would have decided that the new Macbook would do – so Apple took a decision to push them towards the Pro machines.

Shame – as I said, I think it cost them a market. Certainly cost them a little more of my money!

On the plus side – I just noticed that refurb 17″ MBP’s are selling for big discounts on the UK Apple store – I can pick up one for less than the cost of that new Macbook actually… 😉

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
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[Winston A. cely]

I have a tendency to like refurbs better myself. They may be an older model, but they’re also proven in reliability which is always a plus when you’ve got clients with deadlines. 🙂 And most of the time, you can still get Apple Care with ’em!

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

Sound it out: Nu-clear, not nu-cu-lar.

Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe

[Paul Dickin]

[Ben Holmes] “to remove a port… “
Hi
They haven’t ‘removed’ it from the new MacBook – there isn’t enough room to stuff one in.
Its that simple – Jony Ives’ new design was NEVER going to be compromised…
https://images.appleinsider.com/ifixitmbpalum13-2.jpg
From
https://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/16/apples_new_macbook_and_macbook_pro_torn_down_photos.html

[Ben Holmes]

Well, they DID remove it – it was on the old Macbook. Saying the product has no firewire on it because it wouldn’t fit, is frankly laughable… Sorry.

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
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FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

[Gabe Thorburn]

The bottom line here is that Apple needed to separate the Pro line from the consumer line, and they did in the wrong way.

Why can’t they separate the two like they’ve always done, with processor power, larger HD capacity, RAM capacity, graphics power, screen size. The MBP already has lots of pro options that the MacBook doesn’t have such as an Express card slot and larger screen size.

All of Apple’s computers should cater to all creative professionals in some basic way. Firewire was the way. I remember the good ‘ole days when I had a G5 tower, iMac, powerbook, ibook all in the same office, and I could plug a Firewire HD into any one and do FCP video editing on anyone. Firewire is what made Apple great for video production.

Now, with the new MB, you can’t even connect a DV / HDV camera to capture video. USB 2.0 doesn’t cut it. THis is very disappointing not so much for the Pro user, but for those who can’t afford a MBP and want to use the MB as their machine to edit on.

I used to have an iBook G4 1.4 GHZ that I used to edit with. It was great. I got rid of it in hopes to get a MacBook, but they denied the use of FCS on it with the Intel graphics card. This video editing let-down on Apple products started with the 1st gen. of MacBooks

[Andrew Kimery]

[Winston A. Cely] “Apple’s spent a lot of time and money creating iApps that don’t need the bandwidth that their (and others) pro apps need. Using an external drive for your video with iApps is really not necessary so there’s really no need for FW in that respect. “
The iApps, and Final Cut Express, actually need as much or more storage bandwidth when dealing w/consumer camera formats than the ProApps. iMovie has no native support for any HD camera format (unlike FCP which supports HDV natively) so it converts both AVCHD and HDV into AIC. While this makes life easier on the CPU during editing it balloons the file size to around 50gigs an hour for 1080i60. How many people would recommend editing a 100Mbit codec on a laptop’s internal 5400 RPM system drive? I think it’s fairly clear that Apple removed a ubiquitous feature from it’s low-end laptops to protect it’s high-end laptops to the detriment of all potential users. So long Target Disk Mode, so long easy to use Migration Assistant, so long convenient bus-powered HDDs.

Speaking of protecting itself, now that Apple is gone grown more into consumer electronics and media distribution they are starting to ‘pull a Sony’ and hamstringing one aspect of their business to project another. For example, Apple’s stance on Blu-ray. Back in the day Apple was one of the first to make DVD burners available and a leader in desktop DVD authoring. But when asked about Blu-ray Steve jobs recently said, “It’s great to watch the movies, but the licensing of the tech is so complex, we’re waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace.” Which of course means Apple wants you to use the iTMS to get your entertainment even if that drives Pro users away from the Mac platform. If Roxio can figure out the ‘complex’ licensing issues I’m sure Apple can too. Apple is willing to live on the bleeding edge of consumer camera technology by only supporting USB based cameras on it’s low-end laptops but when it comes to Blu-ray they are taking a wait and see approach? Please…

/rant

-A

[Todd Beabout]

FWIW, lack of FireWire on the MB is a Deal-Breaker for me. The end.

I’m sticking with my last-gen white MB. It handles FCP just fine BTW, even though is isn’t technically compatible. I do not use Motion or Color on it though…

-Todd Beabout
Vazda Studios