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New Mac Pro twinges?
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[Marcus Moore] “Thunderbolt in it’s current state is really just a much more robust Firewire.”
I think that’s a bit understated. Firewire didn’t support monitors, PCIe (even if it’s just the lower demand cards) and not even close to the RAID speeds (unless I’m overlooking something). Of course that’s “more robust”… a lot more robust.
[Marcus Moore] “there’s simply no way to replace PCIe today with anything else.”
I can see a MacPro with two 16x PCIe 3 slots and the rest on Thunderbolt. That could shrink the size a bit.[Marcus Moore] “the MacPro can’t be a radical departure from what we know”
I’m not sure what “radical” is but I could see the new MacPro as smaller with only two PCIe slots as I note above. A GPU on the mother board unless they’ve found a way to use the PCIe GPUs with Thunderbolt. This could also mean an option to buy one without GPUs (other than the one on the motherboard) for a lower priced server like model. To me, that would be radical.
Maybe I’m overlooking the importance of 4x PCie slots vs Thunderbolt.
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[Marcus Moore] “Thunderbolt in it’s current state is really just a much more robust Firewire.”
Thunderbolt’s a whole lot more than that. You may not be using it for more, but that’s a different story.
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[Marcus Moore] “Thunderbolt in it’s current state is really just a much more robust Firewire. Until Intel can implement the much faster optical version that can support everything that PCIe can provide… the crossover point is moot.”
Thunderbolt supports PCIe ‘natively’, and while it’s true that it’s not as fast as, say, an 8x internal slot, it’s fast enough for pretty much everything except a) GPUs and b) real-time uncompressed RGB 4K video I/O.
It’s more than fast enough for 1080p and 2K video I/O, which by itself is a pretty big deal. It has really opened up pro video on machines without slots in a way that wasn’t previously true.
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[Chris Kenny] “Thunderbolt supports PCIe ‘natively’, and while it’s true that it’s not as fast as, say, an 8x internal slot, it’s fast enough for pretty much everything except a) GPUs and b) real-time uncompressed RGB 4K video I/O.
It’s more than fast enough for 1080p and 2K video I/O, which by itself is a pretty big deal. It has really opened up pro video on machines without slots in a way that wasn’t previously true.
“It’s also not fast enough for some multicam work, even at 1080.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “It’s also not fast enough for some multicam work, even at 1080.”
Uncompressed, sure, but I don’t know that there are a ton of people trying to do that. It’s fast enough for over 20 streams of ProRes 422 HQ at 1080p/29.97.
Even in pro video, people who need storage faster than ~800-1000 MB/s are a pretty small niche.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Chris Kenny] “Even in pro video, people who need storage faster than ~800-1000 MB/s are a pretty small niche.”
I didn’t realize people are getting 800 MB/s over thunderbolt. I withdraw my remark.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
I did overstate my point. Thunderbolt certainly has added advantages beyond just bandwidth. They type of information it can transmit for example.
I guess in it’s current form I see it enabling uncompressed HD and 4K editing the same way that firewire did for DV/HDV just over a decade ago. Firewire had other uses as well, for hooking up audio gear. The extra bandwidth in Thunderbolt allows for it to do more, like external video I/O, displays, and less demanding PCIe cards.
It really is just a bandwidth problem. When Intel gets Thunderbolt to it’s 100Gb/s capacity, when you can hook up ANY GPU or Redrocket Card or other peripheral you want… then it’s wide open and the essential need for any kind of tower setup evaporates; take a beefed up iMac, hook up a couple extra GPUs and a RR card and what CAN’T you do?
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[Darren Roark] “That’s sort of a glass half empty view.”
Thunderbolt is fast. But it comes in a very narrow product list, it’s pricey and has very strict limits. The apparent ease of use and its velocity can be very seducing (Isn’t it just a simple PCIe cable? And isn’t it lightning fast? Well, I’m sold!) But how is it going to pan out all of the daisy chaining that can be required? I mean as you expand your equipment, let’s say add some components to the mix? Or even trying to work with a different workflow previously untested?
Effectively being the only kind of interface that you have to deal with in regards to upgrade your Mac set up, how is it all going to ride in the Thunderbolt channel? I mean nicely? Throughoutput, monitoring, archiving and adapters of all sorts? I’m kinda skeptic on this issue because it seems to be a very constrained workflow dictated by a single interface without any other more viable options that regular PCIe already offers. That’s going to be upgrade hell!!! But It may well represent the smaller footprint that Apple is pursuing right now, and I concede that it is good enough for a lot of people.
IMO, Thunderbolt actually strikes me as a half empty glass:
“Like all Thunderbolt devices, the transfer speed of 10 gigabit per second translates to something less than 1000MB/s — even if you load it up with eight 6Gbps SSDs capable of a combined speed of 4000MB/s. And, as you can see, even with eight 6Gbps HDDs capable of a combined speed exceeding 1200MB/s, they don.’t come close.”
“One reality check: Before you get carried away and connect two or more Thunderbolt storage devices to your Mac, be advised that the bandwidth is shared by all devices on the “daisy” chain. Even if you have a Mac with two Thunderbolt ports, the maximum real world throughput with both in use is 1350MB/s. We know. We tried it.”
https://www.barefeats.com/hard167.html
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Marcus, I definitely agree with you on the bigger picture. I do not think TBolt is and adequate replacement for trad. PCI slots.
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