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New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
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I think you would be sending me lots of grinders.
https://magazine.creativecow.net/article/clients-or-grinders-understanding-the-three-market-types
Again, Mark has it right.
I’m serious when I said, “Try being a Producer, if you have corporate clients ready to buy some video.” Start with the writing. After that your next step is a kind request for proposals/bids/quotes, from video geeks.
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[Jonathan Gould] “I’m curious…If I refer you to a local business owner (basically a warm lead that i cultivated) and that lands you lets say a $6000 job, you wouldn’t be OK with paying me $1200?”
No.
Hell no!
You must be crazy.
Or maybe you think most of us work with some huge margins, that we can just piss away 20% of the gross.
To get 20% you’re going to have to work a lot harder than that. Especially since I’m doing the bulk of the hard work, and the part that requires the most specialized knowledge, and the part that requires the most skill, and taking all the financial risks, and…Well, I think you get my point.
Not to mention that most of us get free referrals all the time from friends, clients, etc.Lets say “your” client that you refer me to, stiffs me for the 6k after I do all the work on the project. How much of that 6k are you going to be responsible for?
How much of my income are you going to be responsible for replacing if you strike out at getting gigs for me, and I’m idle?
Because at 20%, I expect performance, and some kind of a guarantee for the amount of work delivered, and that the client isn’t some dead-beat, or grinder.
I think you should risk your money and bid the job as the producer, then sub out what you need done, keeping what is left over. Do it this way a few times, and you will see why squeezing 20% out of the average freelancer is going to be a tough row to hoe.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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I know it was “the thing” to have a pro sales rep/publicist working for directors and editors, back in the 80’s, mostly flogging their clients to ad agencies then. I had an editor friend who did that for a while, he dropped it after a year; the financial math didn’t work out.
I suspect that was pretty common because I don’t hear much about agents repping editors anywhere outside of maybe NYC and LA, where I don’t know much about things. And I suppose it might still work for Directors. But frankly, I think this is a mode of operation that’s gone out of style, as these days everybody’s a multitasking Renaissance man or woman, and markets themselves.
I’ll agree with you that not everyone does the best job of it. And they may be missing business opportunities.
On the gripping hand, they’re not paying anybody an ongoing percentage, and can pass some of that savings on to the customers…
I would suggest you convert your sales training into something people buy to use for themselves, instead of a commissioned service. – particularly if you can offer one on one email or phone consults for a fixed rate, I think you’d get some customers wanting specific expert answers to specific situations. This is a familiar model to today’s video people who are used to buying plug-ins and music clips and training modules for software on an as-needed basis.
I just don’t see how the math works out for hiring a commissioned agent today, for a typical small business owner-operator. It may work better for larger outfits where economies of scale and extended lines of credit may help.
I wish you every success and chance to prove me wrong. But there you are.
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[Jonathan Gould] “OK, I hear what you’re saying. But if the margins are that tight, how do you do any marketing or employ any business growth strategies at all?”
Well there are the typical ways freelancers market themselves, web, cold calls. There is also the relationship concept. Often most (freelancers) are trying to establish a relationship with clients that are not going to be one time only deal. This tends to work best for everyone. And then there is word of mouth, and reputation.
[Jonathan Gould] “If I was sending you one client per month or more, could you figure out how to make it work?”
Right off the bat, one client a month is not enough, if they are averaging your hypothetical 6k. That is only 72k a year, which is just enough to support the average one man bad, and his associated overhead. It is not enough to support an additional worker.
What figure could work?
At best, 10% of the net, once the client pays in full. That is the very most a referral from someone with no skin in the game is worth. And I’m talking after paying all the expenses, not just the obvious costs. This would including paying myself to do not only the actual project, but the billing, bank, maintenance, head time/hours on machines, facilities use, insurance, etc costs associated with said job. Which would only be fair since there would be know way of making the 6k, without my doing all the production, and the ancillary work.
It would be impossible to come up with a solid figure with so little info on your hypothetical 6k job, but lets say all went really well, and after it was all said and done the net profit (20%) was 1,200 dollars. Your cut would be $120.[Jonathan Gould] “And, if you knew it was a referral from me, couldn’t you charge $7200 instead of $6000?”
No.
Most projects have an associated budget. If it takes all the budget to produce the project, where does that extra money come from???
Maybe you should try telling the client your charging a 20% finder fee, for getting them a shooter/editor, whatever. There are crew booking companies that charge the client for finding crew. But they don’t get 20%. And they do provide a time consuming service that some clients either would rather not do, or don’t have the contacts or resources in the market to do themselves.
Look, a 6k project, is a 6k project. You can’t just mark it up 20% without delivering 20% more value to the client. This is the equivalent of buying items at retail, then marking them up 20%, and trying to sell them in a market that has access to the items at the same retail price you were paying before the mark-up. The only way this could possibly work is if the client/buyer live in a vacuum, and is unaware of the millions of others doing the same thing for 20% less.[Jonathan Gould] “As far as the client goes after the first job…If I promote another video and send in a referral sheet, I get 20%. If you promote to him and book another job, no 20%.”
Typically, that is correct. Except for that 20% figure you are liking. You get a booking, agent fee, or whatever you call it for every gig you bring, not every client. If a client is a repeat on his own, no soup for you.
Most sales types in local broadcasting get 10% selling spots. Some might even get a little more. No one is getting 20% to sell local air. And plenty of stations that do local production, have tried to sell it on a commission basis, and few, if any, have found success with that model. Most end up going back to production being a loss leader, to get the air buy. The extra “money for nothing”, just isn’t there.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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Hi Scott, I appreciate your comments. To clarify, I envision you having a well-trained “foot soldier” promoting your work to the community. I’m not really talking big corporations that you need a pre-established relationship.
These sales reps would be trained on what kind of businesses are right for a promotional video, for example plastic surgeon, cosmetic dentist, chiropractor, restaurant, and so on. They would be trained to target the right businesses.
In this case, a $6000 job is not a $6000 job. The price is whatever you tell them it is. These local business owners have no clue what the “going rate” is and I don’t think they could tell the difference between a $6000 job and a $30,000 job. They probably have zero experience with video marketing.
In this case, you could charge the $7200 to cover the referral fee.
Yes it is true that you are the expert and you do the bulk of the work and what you do is genius, however you could be the very best videographer this side of the Mississippi but if nobody knows about you, you’ll be the best kept secret.
Nothing happens until you get the client. The sales rep will facilitate you getting the client. It is a necessary first step. Without the sales rep, how will the local community find out about you. And if they don’t find out about you, they are missing out on one awesome way to promote their business.
Hearing everybody’s opinion, perhaps 15% of the total project is more like it. And you know what, if they work their butt off and pursue a prospect for you and book a consultation for you, don’t they deserve to earn some money. An amount that provides some incentive?
All the best.
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From reading you, Jonathan, it is pretty clear to me that you think that this is far easier than it is. Over the last 20 years or so, I have had a couple of people come in talking like you and telling me how they are an experienced salesperson and can make me money.
Both blanked.
Oh, they were experienced salespeople, no doubt. But what they didn’t know was the nature of this industry and the fact that (by your own admission you are not dealing with major corporations) small local businesses are pitched time after time by local TV stations and cable companies. These TV stations and cable companies will do the production work for free to get the ad buy.
So it’s not as easy as you imply to get these small businesses to bite on $6,000 worth of production and “then just throw another $1200 on top” because “they don’t know what this stuff costs.” Yes they do. It costs them nothing, most times.
The exception to that rule is someone who builds a relationship with a client and proves their value enough to get the money. And the value I am talking about is not sales ability and being able to close a deal.
This is not a commodity item and people are not going to line up like you think they are going to. There are many people who get into this industry because they think it’s going to be a fun job. The reality is, this is not an easy job and it is highly competitive. Added to the normal day to day competition between production shops, are the local TV and cable outlets that work really cheap. They have feet on the ground and when their salespeople burn out they throw a fresh face at the same business owners, who then get the same pitch over and over every time a new person joins the sales team.
I apologize in advance if this seems rude but I think that yours are the machinations of someone who thinks they have found a good idea. Unfortunately it is a formula many of us have seen and heard over and over again in the last 20 years. There are all kinds of versions of this story that I have heard over the years, yet not once have I heard of it working for any of the people that I know here.
But you are welcome to try…
Best regards,
Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.netCreativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.
“Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm.” – Woody Allen
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Ok Ronald,
Thank you for your honest opinion. I will take it all into consideration.Be Well,
Jonathan -
If I might riff off part of Ron’s post, the thing that irks me about media sales and marketing types that offer to do my marketing for me is, they are the wrong person to send to the client. You should send the guy that does the work, armed with knowledge of how to sell, rather than a salesman who doesn’t really understand what he can sell. In small video businesses, YOU are the product, and you are thus the only truly qualified person to represent that product.
But let’s assume for minute that magic happens, and the salesman gets the sit-down with the client, the sales dude without TV and video-making experience can’t answer the kind of questions that can come up, and they can’t extrapolate items that come up in the live conversation and immediately point to specific abilites or talents or portfolio items from the business to connect the client’s needs or ideas to what’s possible. A generic salesman is good at vague promises and over-promising on deliverables. A staff person doing a consult knows when to not over-promise things that are not practical from a technical or messaging perspective.
The guy who knows those answers is the producer, editor, writer, or director. If you have to have one of them tag along to answer client questions on the spot, really, what was the point of having a salesman there at all? I think the better strategy is to take a video expert and teach them salesmanship, rather than try to teach a saleman enough about the video business to make a good sales consultant.
I’m talking about the difference between a salesman and a sales consultant. A salesman comes in with a canned product or service contract pitch, x service for y price, he tells you a price and gives a list of services or benefits. He moves units, He’s a commodity mover. And he’s completely interchangable with any other commodity mover.
The sales consultant brings unique expertise and creativity to the problem. He or she listens to the customer FIRST and learns what his needs and problems are, then, if he has nothing that helps, he says so, thanks you for your time, and leaves.
If he thinks he can offer specific things to solve the communications problem, he explains those things, connects the dots, shows the strategy behind the solution, lays out the steps of the process, answering questions all along the way, and then he tries to close a deal on his company being the one that knows how to make this specific thing the specific way. By that time, the customer is likely to agree, hopefully, that this unique, crafted, custom solution is going to solve his particular and specific need. They’ve bought into the vision you’ve created, together.
I think I would be a terrible salesman for most products or services. I can’t look someone in the eye and try to convince them to buy something I know they don’t need. I think I *could* be a decent sales consultant for a product or service I deeply understood, because what I’m doing is helping someone solve a real problem.
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Scott Sheriff succinctly identifies the key issue at hand (although I’m not sure the math is correct)…
“…lets say all went really well, and after it was all said and done the net profit (20%) was 1,200 dollars. Your cut would be $120.”
A $6000 job does not yield $6000 profit. By taking 20% of the total budget, you are asking for a cut of what I pay my vendors (grip rental, PA’s, etc), which in most cases are long standing relationships that I spent a lot of time cultivating before you came along. It’s not atypical for me to have paid them out of my own pocket in the past regardless of the profitability or cash flow of the particular job they worked on, just to preserve that relationship.
There is definitely value in someone who can deliver sales, but in this business it has to be a two way street. The sales person’s fortune has to rise and fall with the profitability of each job.
Adam Duplay
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“The guy who knows those answers is the producer, editor, writer, or director.”
Absolutely, couldn’t agree with you more.
This is not the job of the marketing executive. The marketing executive is the catalyst. Their job is to introduce the service, see if the prospect is interested,and then set up a consultation with you.
What they are basically doing are the things that you can’t (don’t have the time) or are unwilling (don’t want to hit the streets and promote) to do.
They don’t need “magic”. They need a basic understanding of the service. They need a passion for helping people and for the service. They need appreciation and they need incentive.
“If he thinks he can offer specific things to solve the communications problem, he explains those things, connects the dots, shows the strategy behind the solution, lays out the steps of the process, answering questions all along the way, and then he tries to close a deal on his company being the one that knows how to make this specific thing the specific way. By that time, the customer is likely to agree, hopefully, that this unique, crafted, custom solution is going to solve his particular and specific need. They’ve bought into the vision you’ve created, together.”
This is your job as the producer. This is not the marketing executives job. But if you never meet the person, you will never have the chance.
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