New comp – DVCProHD 720-4:3 aspect preview

[Joey Foreman]

That’s the thing. AE interprets it on import as 960 x 720, 1.33 p.a.r.
Quicktime sees it as 1280 X 720 Normal and 1280 x 720 Display.
But Lo and Behold FCP sees it as 960 x 720, but displays it correctly.
I’ve triple checked these numbers, and it’s always been a boggler to me since i started working with this format.

[Darby Edelen]

There may be some embedded information in the file to tell QT Player how to interpret it. I’ve noticed that QT Player will often give two resolutions in the information window as in “720×480 (640×480)” but I’m not clear on where it gets this information. You can switch from one display resolution to the other by setting the “Conform aperture to:” property in the Presentation section of the properties window to different values.

I was asking specifically about what you were saying about NTSC footage in an NTSC comp though:

[Joey Foreman] “I’m still confused as to why NTSC footage is displayed in the composition window with Pixel Aspect Correction off. If you turn it on it stretches the footage out.”

What behavior are you describing here?

Darby Edelen
Lead Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA

[Joey Foreman]

I’ll try to walk through the issue one more time.

File > Import > [DvCPro clip – 1280 x 720]
AE interprets it on import as 960 x 720, DVCPro HD 720 (1.33) p.a.r.
Drag the clip to the Make Comp icon.
The composition opens and has Composition Settings which – as you would expect – are identical to those in Interpret Footage. But the name given is Custom and the lock aspect ratio checkbox is set to 4:3
The pixel aspect ratio is still called DVCPro HD 720 (1.33)
but next to that it says Frame Aspect Ratio 16:9

It displays squished. Kind of looks like an anamorphic squeeze. Because it’s actually 16 x 9 and AE is squeezing it into a 4:3 frame.

Turning on Pixel Aspect Correction doesn’t work. It stretches it too wide.

Changing the Pixel aspect ratio to Square displays it correctly, but the sides are cropped. Because it is still a 4:3 frame.

Therefore the only thing that works is to change the resolution back to 1280 x 720.

But unless the pixel aspect ratio is set to Square in the composition settings, the image will remain 4:3 when the frame goes to 16 x 9.

To sum up: the only way to have AE display this footage properly is to leave the Interpret Footage settings as they are on import – then drop the footage into a Comp that is set to 1280 x 720, Square Pixels.

I know it sounds crazy and I know that technically it makes no sense.

What’s more, when you render this out and import it into FCP,
even though it now has Square p.a.r. it displays normally.

[Darby Edelen]

[Joey Foreman] “It displays squished. Kind of looks like an anamorphic squeeze. Because it’s actually 16 x 9 and AE is squeezing it into a 4:3 frame.

Turning on Pixel Aspect Correction doesn’t work. It stretches it too wide.

Changing the Pixel aspect ratio to Square displays it correctly, but the sides are cropped. Because it is still a 4:3 frame. “

I can’t reproduce this. That is to say, with a 960×720 DVCPRO HD clip AE imports it correctly as 960×720 (1.33 PAR), and when dragged to create a new composition from this clip it has the correct comp settings:

960 x 720 (Lock Aspect Ratio to 4:3)
1.33 PAR (Frame Aspect Ratio: 16:9)

It appears 4:3 with pixel aspect ratio correction off, but looks correct at 16:9 with it on. What is the source of your DVCPRO HD footage, and how does it appear in QT?

Darby Edelen
Lead Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA

[Joey Foreman]

I’ve taken the same footage and made comps using both methods.

1. Default comp, p.a.c. on.

2. Dropped footage into 1280 x 720 comp, square pixels, p.a.c. off.

The 1st one, while not distorted, shows considerable edge artifacting. Compare to the 2nd.

[Joey Foreman]

Jeez, I can’t get the images to post. Do they have to be jpg?

[Joey Foreman]

Here are the links:

1. Default, p.a.c.

https://webpages.charter.net/joey848/DefaultComp_PixelAspectCorrection.tiff

2. 1280 x 720 comp, Square pixels, no p.a.c.

https://webpages.charter.net/joey848/1280×720%20Comp_Square%20Pixels.tiff

[Kevin Camp]

the edge artifacts are just the way ae does a quick and dirty par compensation, the actual footage if previewed in a 16:9 broadcast monitor would look fine.

the actual dimensions of dvcprohd 720 footage is 960×720 (4:3 apsect ratio), but with a 1.3 par, the footage plays back like it is 1280×720 (16:9)… just like standard dv footage is 720×480 (a 3:2 aspect ratio) plays back as 640×480 (4:3) with its .9 par, or widescreen d1 footage is 720×486 (3:2) but plays back as 864×486 (16:9) with its 1.2 par.

so this is normal, there is nothing wrong with ae. also, there is nothing wrong with creating a square pixel dh comp to work with the footage as you described. it can be a lot easier to look at as a square pixel comp. the only potential issue is if you go back to an nle or something and that piece of software is expecting a standard dvcprohd 720 frame size of 960×720, but that’s easy enough to fix with render settings or by dragging you comp into a dvprohd 720 standard comp (960×720, 1.33 par).

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW

[Joey Foreman]

FCP takes the square comp renders just fine.

I don’t always have access to a monitor for previews, so I kind of like my footage to be displayed properly.

I guess the point of my original question is why can’t AE just display the footage the way it’s supposed to look without jumping through so many hoops?

Quicktime player calls the footage 1280 x 720.
AE and FCP call it 960 x 720, but at least FCP knows how to display it by default.

[Darby Edelen]

[Joey Foreman] “I guess the point of my original question is why can’t AE just display the footage the way it’s supposed to look without jumping through so many hoops? “

Unfortunately, neither FCP or AE display the footage “the way it’s supposed to look” if you’re viewing it on a computer monitor. These are all approximations. FCP has the exact same pixel aspect ratio hoop as AE, it just happens to soften the footage instead of adding those vertical distortions.

As far as I know there are only 2 hoops in AE, and you shouldn’t have to jump through either of them if your interpretation rules and preview settings are all set properly.

Darby Edelen
Lead Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA