my guess to what will happen to the suite

[Craig Seeman]

[Vincent Strader] “DVDSP is dead? What’s going to be the new DVD program? If it was dead several studios ago what have people been using to create DVDs?”

My guess is DVDSP development is dead but the program may still be available from Apple online store. For example, iDVD is not available in the App Store but it’s still included in the box set from Apple online store as well.

[Devin Crane]

I didn’t say it was buried. There hasn’t been any major updates since FCS2 came out and I’m not sure there was a major change since FCS1 hit the shelves, at least none in the past 4 years. Even though Apple started off on the Blu-Ray consortium board they (Steve Jobs) have since taken a stance against Blu-Ray. If Apple was just a computer company then yes you would already have Blu-Ray Studio Pro years ago but it is no longer the case and Apple is going to great lengths to kill discs all together with the advent of the App Store. So as far as DVD Studio Pro goes it’s possible you can still purchase it in the future but don’t expect it to be developed any further.

[Richard Herd]

I’m pointing out that Steve Jobs et al are not “happy to concede” anything to anyone. They may in fact concede, but they would not be happy about it.

I also don’t know what you mean by advanced features.

[Craig Seeman]

[Devin Crane] “If Apple was just a computer company then yes you would already have Blu-Ray Studio Pro years ago but it is no longer the case and Apple is going to great lengths to kill discs all together with the advent of the App Store. So as far as DVD Studio Pro goes it’s possible you can still purchase it in the future but don’t expect it to be developed any further.”

I don’t think Apple is too far off the mark in their Blu-ray assessment especially relative to their R&D resources and ROI on such.

You can do high quality Blu-ray “screeners” now in FCP7/Compressor. It’s just that the menu tools rank below even iDVD capabilities. There’s certainly some demand for designed DVD menus. I’m not sure there’s the same demand for Blu-ray

In the corporate market I believe such businesses still prefer DVD if they’re distributing a hard copy and certainly may want nice menu design. I don’t think there’s a demand for that kind of Blu-ray menu design in the same market because businesses are less likely to distribute Blu-ray as hard copy given their need to reach the widest audience (DVD) compared to the smaller market penetration of Blu-ray.

The demand for good menu designed Blu-ray is a small and very high end market (IMHO) and Apple has no reason to compete with such tools especially if they believe that market will be short lived.

While a business might chose Blu-ray for presentation (and that can be file based as well), for distribution in that market DVD still dominates, I think.

Blu-ray menu design seems to be limited to feature film and doc use and people doing that kind of work may be opting for higher end software.

[Oliver Peters]

[Richard Herd] “I also don’t know what you mean by advanced features.”

I’m not sure if you are referring to my comments about what FCP 7 currently lacks – or what advanced features I think FCP X WILL have – or what’s different about apps like Smoke or Pablo.

But, advanced features in my mind are things like,

ScriptSync and PhraseFind
stereo3D toolkit
planar or 3D tracking
high-quality HSL keying for color grading
high-quality blue/green-screen keying
3D lighting and effects built around 3D space
node-based compositing
rotospline matte tools
DPX import/export support
native RAW support for a wide range of RAW camera formats
native codec support for advanced camera codecs, like HDCAM-SR or AVC-Intra
Proper cadence handling when mixing 23.98 and 29.97
motion-interpolated slomos
the ability to mix color spaces without gamma shifts
proper 2.5/3D DVE tools
subpixel filtering

And more …

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Oliver Peters]

It’s a valid argument to say that users can sit and wait a year or more as FCP X gets up to the feature level we use in FCP 7 and the rest of the suite. But to base that argument on FCP 1.0 and the competitive landscape is nonsense.

When FCP first came out, it was up against Avid and not much more. That’s no longer true. In fact FCP X is just as much up against FCP 7 as any competitor. FCP 1.0 would have never gone past a hobby DV editor if it hadn’t been for the 3rd party hardware vendors like Digital Voodoo, Pinnacle and Matrox. Then later AJA and Blackmagic Design. Once you could do uncompressed SD and HD at a fraction of the cost of an Avid Symphony or DS, people were willing to suffer through its deficiencies.

Until Motion, Soundtrack Pro and Color came along, most FCP users were quite happy with the app as it was. Apple was never asking the user to take a step backwards – only also forward with the next update.

If FCP X is PERCEIVED as taking a step backwards in some pro features, heavy duty users will move on. There simply isn’t the sort of grace period that there used to be.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Craig Seeman]

[Oliver Peters] “When FCP first came out, it was up against Avid and not much more.”

Don’t forget that Avid announced they were discontinuing development on the Mac (and did a very fast backpedal) so Apple was in danger of losing Mac sales which were already small at the time.

[Oliver Peters] “If FCP X is PERCEIVED as taking a step backwards in some pro features, heavy duty users will move on. There simply isn’t the sort of grace period that there used to be.”

If Apple gets you to buy a Mac and FCPX they still have your money and business. The large FCPX base will be very attractive (already is) for third party developers. As I’ve noted elsewhere I expect FCPX on Thunderbolt iMacs and MBPs to be a significant combination as cost (but not feature) leader over Avid.

Apple’s new none disc and ship based distribution model should mean faster feature distribution as they’re developed rather than a two year wait. What might not be there in June may well be added by December.

[Oliver Peters]

[Craig Seeman] “As I’ve noted elsewhere I expect FCPX on Thunderbolt iMacs and MBPs to be a significant combination as cost (but not feature) leader over Avid.”

I don’t disagree, but this doesn’t exclude Avid or Adobe. Both can run on that machine and both take 3rd party hardware. Once Avid opens up to all the i/o options (only Matrox MXO2 Mini and AJA Io Express now) and these offer a Thunderbolt adapter, you will be able to use any of the top 3 NLEs. Apple still makes money either way and probably still sells seats of FCP X. So, in a sense, it could be a win-win for each.

[Craig Seeman] “Apple’s new none disc and ship based distribution model should mean faster feature distribution as they’re developed rather than a two year wait.”

I doubt that’s been a hold-up, but sure. Avid and Adobe have already been doing that.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Richard Herd]

Maybe also you could put an A if avid does it, an S for smoke, and so on.

Is there a single app that allows you to do all of those plus just cutting picture?

And I think different hats are worn at different times. For example, when cutting the story, I just need a small computer and some headphones. But then after the story is told, other tools are needed to finish. FCPX will be a finishing system for the microbudget producer, just as FCS is now.

[Richard Herd]

Anyone remember Media 100?