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my first comments on the new Mac Pro
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[Bob Zelin] “it appears that there are SIX independent Thunderbolt 2 ports, that each can control 6 devices on their chain. “
Per Phil Schiller’s WWDC preso, there are three TB2 controllers, each of which is driving two of the six ports. As best we can tell, TB2 doesn’t get more bandwidth at the controller, it just combines the formerly segregated twin 10Gbps lanes (one for data, the other for DisplayPort) into a single 20Gbps lane.
Given all that, I don’t understand how they can claim 20Gbps on something being fed by a bus (PCIe 2.0 x4) that is only capable of doing around 12Gbps. Clearly I’m not understanding something about how Thunderbolt really works…
[Bob Zelin] “no 10gig ports. I am surprised, but not that surprised.”
That made me sad when they listed the specs. Intel has this nice, inexpensive X540 chipset just begging to be used and they ignored it.
[Bob Zelin] “And I wonder if OS X 10.9 will still run FCP 7.”
It should, the QuickTime C APIs are still there in 10.9, although they are now fully deprecated with the advent of the new AV Kit API (if you have an Apple Developer account, go watch the Moving to AV Kit Session from WWDC2013). 10.9 may be the last OS X that can run FCP7, QT Player Pro 7, and any other legacy QuickTime app.
Best,
Andy -
[Andrew Richards] “[Bob Zelin] “no 10gig ports. I am surprised, but not that surprised.”
That made me sad when they listed the specs. Intel has this nice, inexpensive X540 chipset just begging to be used and they ignored it.”
You might find this by Alex Gollner (aka Alex4D) Interesting.
https://alex4d.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/os-x-10-9-networking-boost/According to FAQ-MAC a feature of Apple’s forthcoming Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks might allow many more Macs be used in simple render farms: IP over Thunderbolt.
and
Internet Protocol over Thunderbolt means that you can connect Macs via Thunderbolt cables and use the Thunderbolt cable as a network connection. Thunderbolt 1 connections have a theoretical maximum transfer rate of 10 Gb/s – which is similar to the speed of 10 gigabit Ethernet, which is a popular post production networking standard.
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no offense Craig, but who cares. Netgear 10gig switches will be cheaper than any Thunderbolt hub that is created (at least at the beginning), and you can do 1G and 10G Adobe CS6 render farms right now for free (well – CS6 ain’t free) but they give you the software to do this, and a simple network (with 1G or 10G) will allow you to do this.
So are you saying that you won’t create a network do render engine work, or won’t do 10gig, until it’s “built into” an Apple computer ? Are you a FCP-X user only ? Sorry for being so rude (I am always rude), but it seems that there is a desperation for people to want APPLE to provide these things with the computer (no matter how much it may cost), even if it can be done cheaply right now in 2013, without waiting for anything. Don’t you have to make a living in the mean time.
All this reminds me of the insane posts when the Red Scarlet was going to be released for $3000, and users on Cow were “not going to shoot their feature” until the Scarlet became available. Well, 10G is available right now, and it’s cheap, and you can even use a 80 dollar Netgear 1G switch to do AE renders right now with free software. So what’s the big F#$%@#g deal ?
OOOH but Apple will give it to me, and then it’s ALL APPLE !!!!!!
Praise the Lord !Apple will not save you. But Creative Cow will.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com -
I can see the new MacPro being a server to other older MacPros via Thunderboldt. I have four systems that are used all day every day…add a PCI thunderbolt card to them and hook them to the new MacPro. Add a raid via thunderbolt to the new MacPro and serve it up like a SmallTree RAID etc.
Lots of configs here with this new thing they are calling Thunderbolt…leave it to Bob Z to make us all think outside the box for once! Or twice.
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
https://www.tiltmedia.com -
So two fundamental questions:
1. Does 6 Thunderbolt2 pots on the Mac Pro “Tube” mean bandwidth of 1×20, 3x 20 or 6x20Gbps?
2. Will ProMax get into the Hackintosh business with the Pro One? ProMax Ireland, maybe? 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Ease of use Bob. The easier Apple makes it the better they do. The easier it is for people without the experience to do it. Will cost more with Apple? Sure! But the ROI for those taking the Apple shortcut will be worth it to them. Apple may cost more but the cost the higher experience is greater than that.
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[Craig Seeman] “According to FAQ-MAC a feature of Apple’s forthcoming Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks might allow many more Macs be used in simple render farms: IP over Thunderbolt.”
The physical networking is not the hard part of building a render farm. It’s not even usually the bottleneck — though the render nodes all banging on the same shared storage can be.
The client/server system for distributing assets needed for the render, assigning jobs to nodes, monitoring nodes’ statuses, tolerating faults, and re-assembling the split output is the hard part of networked rendering.
I don’t see signs that Apple is interested in this area. They discontinued XGrid, and when was the last major update to Qmaster?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Oliver Peters] “1. Does 6 Thunderbolt2 pots on the Mac Pro “Tube” mean bandwidth of 1×20, 3x 20 or 6x20Gbps?”
it has three controllers so it’s 3×20. Of course, the interesting question is what happens when you plug-in a TB 1 device, or use it a part of a TB device chain. Very likely that the whole port switches to slower TB1 mode.
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“You also agree that you will not use these products for… the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons.”
iTunes End User Licence Agreement -
I’ve been waiting with baited breath for a new Mac Pro, but I can’t imagine jumping in any time soon
till all the peripheral issues are worked out.Can’t believe I’m saying this but a Hackintosh is looking better and better.
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First, the new MacPro uses PCIe 3.0, which is 985MB/sec per lane. Not sure how mane lanes they dedicated to each TB controller, but TB2 is only 20Gb/sec which is only 2.5 GB/sec. So in theory they only need 3-4 PCIe 3.0 lanes to handle the data rate.
16 lane PCIe 3.0 is 15.75 GB/sec (gigabytes vs gigabits).
That could be were the confusion is. GB = gigabytes , Gb = gigabits
As far as TB1 devices being plugged in, it probably isn’t a big deal since it will only be asking for half the allowed rate.
Not exactly sure how may PCIe lanes the new Haswell chip has, but I have seen the number 40 mentioned.
-mark
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