mixing PAL and NTSC clips in iDVD or DVD Pro

[Alexander Kallas]

[Rafael Amador] “Very happy to hear that I’ve been helpful.
Have very nice holidays and a great 2008.
Rafael
“

If may ask (to save me hours of testing)
With the Nattress sharpener, do you use super-sharpening, at 75 seems brutal,
so I’m asuming the regular sharpener,
What about the other features/settings?
And with the G smoother (for DVD) de-interlaced or not?
Thanks Rafael

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Alexander,
I think you are using the Nattress “Big Box of Tricks” filters. I have never used those.
The one I use is the “G Chroma Sharpen Interlaced” that comes with the “Films effects 2.5.2” package.
It makes smoothing and then sharpening together. I use it with the default preset and works great with most of the DV footage.
If you are working with DV PAL or NTSC and want to end up in a standard DVD, this is your filter. You will tell me how it works.
Cheers and happy New Year.
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Alexander Kallas]

[Rafael Amador] ”
Hi Alexander,
I think you are using the Nattress “Big Box of Tricks” filters. I have never used those.
The one I use is the “G Chroma Sharpen Interlaced” that comes with the “Films effects 2.5.2″ package.
It makes smoothing and then sharpening together. I use it with the default preset and works great with most of the DV footage.
If you are working with DV PAL or NTSC and want to end up in a standard DVD, this is your filter. You will tell me how it works.
Cheers and happy New Year.
rafael”

Gee thanks Rafael,
what a wealth of knowledge you share,
thanks again

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Alexander,
The little I know about digital video I’ve learn it from people that have shared their experience in internet. So those are my 2 cents.
Happy 2008 again, and if you want to contact me any time, post to:
rafalaos at hotmail.
rafael
PS: If you don’t share you may have a lot of knowledge, but nothing of wisdom.

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Alexander Kallas]

Rafael,
I have e-mailed Graeme and in NTSC he suggests using the filter on the DV Time-line, with the 411 setting.
Are you advocating converting DV to 10-bit uncompressed, and THEN applying it his filter, in which case you would have to set 422.
Is there a difference in the final result between the two methods?
Could you please advise me on the correct/best workflow for NTSCDV material.

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Alexander,
In the filter you must choose the seting for the kind of footage you are using. 411 in his case because your pictures are DV NTSC. But if you really want to make work the filter, then you need to set the sequence to a codex better than DV.

In the web site of Nattress you can find some information about this: https://www.nattress.com/Products/filmeffects/G_Nicer411.htm

This is about the “Nicer” but an be applied to the rest of the Chroma resampling filters:
“This filter is designed to help you work with NTSC DV and it’s 4:1:1 chroma sampling when you are doing chroma-keying (blue screen or green screen) or “bumping” it up to a higher chroma sampled format like Digital Betacam”.

You can look at well to this other page about the Chroma Smoothing filters for Color of Nattress:

https://www.nattress.com/Products/FinalTouch/FTGChromaSmooth.htm
(Scroll the page down).

Those are basically the same Chroma resample filters to be used on top of any kind of footage in Color. In Color all the rendering is done in RGB and you can only export with high quality codex so you will see always the effect of this filters when applied. In FC you need to bump to a better codex to see the result of the filter. There is not point to apply it and export DV.
The same would happens If you could export from Color in DV: the effect of those filters would be lost as well.
So what I normally do is to edit everything in DV. Then Color correction in the same time-line and right before exporting I drop the Nattress Chroma Sharpening (420/Smooth then sharpen. Iwork in PAL), and I change the sequence codex to Unc 10b or Prores HQ. Some times that I want to send short things to AE, I export with Sheer 10b 444 that I know is the best picture that FC can output.
Cheers,
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Alexander Kallas]

[Rafael Amador] “Hi Alexander,
In the filter you must choose the seting for the kind of footage you are using. 411 in his case because your pictures are DV NTSC. But if you really want to make work the filter, then you need to set the sequence to a codex better than DV. “

Hmm.
Now I’m confused, are we talking about the “G nicer 411” or the “G Chroma Sharpen Interlaced”. When would you use one in preference to the other
Could you desribe the best workflow for NTSCDV for each filter please.

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Alexander,
G Nicer only works in DV NTSC footage (411) while Chroma Sharpen works in every kind of footage (411, 420, 422). All those filters try to rebuild the Chroma as it would be if you would have recorded in a 444 fashion. If you want to apreciate the effect of the filter you need to apply it in a sequence with a better chroma sampling than the original footage. So if you want that the filter improve DV footage (NTSC or PAL) you need to set your sequence at least as DV50 (422). If you want to improve some 422 footage, you would need to set your sequence in a 444 codex.
You need more chroma samples than the original if you want that those filters work properly.
I´ll be back home in a couple of weeks. I´ll try to make a graphic to make it easier to understand.
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Alexander Kallas]

[Rafael Amador] “You need more chroma samples than the original if you want that those filters work properly.
I´ll be back home in a couple of weeks. I´ll try to make a graphic to make it easier to understand.
rafael”

So for DVNTSC, bumped up to a 10-bit uncompressed timeline, do I set the C&S filter to 422
(which is the color-space for 10-bit uncompressed) or leave the setting at 411 as for DVNTSC?

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

Leave it in 411, as your footage is.

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE