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Might Be An Interesting Read
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FWIW
One of the reasons I started writing the book “Timeline” was that I thought I knew stuff, and as it turns out I didn’t know half. After four years of research I learnt that I could no longer get away with assuming I knew everything, and that learning is a constant.The Habermans and their company Lex Computer and Management acquired the Montage patents at an auction when the original Montage (created by Ron Barker and Chester Schuler) closed its doors.
The US Patent 4538188 is one of the inventions made by Barker, Schuler and their team prior to the 1984 NAB release of the Montage editing system. 4538188 covers the use of picture icons – or picons – to display images for editors. The method was created to get around the problem that computer hardware of the era couldn’t play all of the frames of rushes video, so the engineers devised a way to show still frames of the first and last frame of a sequence/clip. Mr Schuler also told me that by creating this method, and crafting patents to cover it, the Montage company became a more valuable proposition for investors.
The general rule with US Patents (and their IP) is that they are enforceable for 17/20 years depending on filing or issue date. 4538188’s filing date is Dec 22, 1982 and issue date is Aug 27, 1985. The lapse dates of this patent alone seems to go beyond the dates of Apple’s acquisition of the Final Cut code from Macromedia.
To confirm this, I spoke with the Macromedia product manger, and engineering manager for Final Cut at the time.
So Apple would have had to contend with a law suit from Lex Computer and Management if they included picons in Final Cut without a licence, and the fees were a consideration before Apple decided to pay the reported $10m. In fact the Haberman family successfully defended the Montage patents unit at least Dec 2003.
Sure 1999 seems too late for the Montage patents to be still in play, but in play they were. IMHO.
John Buck
timelinebook.tumblr.comLawsuit link
https://www.ll.georgetown.edu/federal/judicial/fed/opinions/01opinions/01-1320.html
Patent link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent_in_the_United_States
Patent filing link
https://www.google.com/patents?id=hCM1AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=montage+ba+rker+schuler&hl=en&ei=ymXATq74CtC0iQecp7HtBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false -
John, I knew about the patents, but not that kind of detail. I can’t wait to read your book(s). I bought a Montage3 from Lex back in the early 90s, and spent a lot of time exploring other NLEs so I’m familiar enough with the history to know how well you are nailing it. Can’t wait.
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Chris
Thanks for the positive reply
I would love to add your Montage stories to the mix. Please contact me via email
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John, just a note. I downloaded Timeline 1 from Apple without any problem. Timeline II, however, only seems to download an eight page synopsis, even after purchasing. Thought you might want to know.
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ok thanks for the feedback. i have not heard this error before. try deleting the book off your iPad and then letting it re-sync to iTunes, it will re-download (if there’s such a word). i found that fixed a glitch i had with ibooks, but i will report the fault you experienced to the aggregator/publisher none the less.
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Perhaps the whole thing was whole licensing thing was a knee jerk reaction to the fact that it was a licensing issue. Maybe the license was the more obvious one- that part of the code was based on MS code and that Jobs made an agreement with MS back in 99 that was for 10 years. There may have been an assumption that they could renew in 2009 but with Gates gone and the new strain between the 2 companies from the iPhone and Zune, perhaps Apple was seen as a threat and it wasn’t renewed. Apple has to start from scratch, so they figure they might as well ditch the marketing dept. They figure they can be ready in a year or so and pay some exorbanant amount for an extension with MS, which expires sometime around June 30th 2011. Realizing that FCP X isn’t ready, And that Steve is running on borrowed time, things are pushed into high gear and weird things like the supermeet occur. And, once it is released FCP classic is eol’d along with any other software built in any way on that code.
Along the way, they were getting very excited about the new directions they were headed and lost sight of pro users, since the goal was to make something new. I’m also guessing Randy didn’t want to build Premiere a third time. Maybe back in ’99 Jobs also made a 10 year agreement with Adobe that adobe would still make Photoshop. Recent strain over flash may have had Adobe threatening to pull PS unless they stop development of Final Cut. Maybe classic was also licensing some conventions from premiere/Adobe.
After the massive uproar over FCP X, Apple had its lawyers dig deep and decided they could sell existing copies via special phone order that but ramping back up the supply chain would be suspect.
Whatever it is, it’s a secret that is being kept as well as any Apple secret to date.
On another note- we were happy with using Pages/Numbers until Lion came out. We bought MS Office because it has a “Save As” command. “Versions” is perhaps the most f’d up thing Apple has done in awhile.
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[Bret Williams] “Along the way, they were getting very excited about the new directions they were headed and lost sight of pro users, since the goal was to make something new.”
In what way did they “lose sight” of pro users? Are you trying to argue that a sub-frame accuracy in edits, robust timecode support, a monster database under the hood and stuff like Roles are built for folks doing birthday party videos and the occasional low budget wedding?
IMO, saying X is “not for pros” simply reveals the radically myopic view that the only “pro” worthy of the name is someone working in Hollywood on a feature. You’re probably watching clips every week in Network Sports Programming searched and broadcast out of FCP-X. That’s professional. Period.
[Bret Williams] “We bought MS Office because it has a “Save As” command. “Versions” is perhaps the most f’d up thing Apple has done in awhile.”
Wait, I thought the Magnetic Timeline still had that title?
Am I falling behind?
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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Seriously? Ok, a LARGE PORTION of professional users. And by definition of Pro I mean those that are paid for their work. I’m aware of the exceptions.
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This does not mean they “lost sight.” FCPX has professional targeted features but it’s still under development. Features will be added as they can be coded and vetted. I can’t speak for Bill but that Apple included features that would only be of interest to professionals shows intent even if not complete implementation.
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[Bill Davis] “IMO, saying X is “not for pros” simply reveals the radically myopic view that the only “pro” worthy of the name is someone working in Hollywood on a feature. You’re probably watching clips every week in Network Sports Programming searched and broadcast out of FCP-X. That’s professional. Period.”
“Radically myopic”? Hardly.
Go back and reread the entire thread in which this was covered before. https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/19545#19634
When you stepped into challenge Herb Sevush on this exact subject I responded to you as follows:
[Bill Davis] “Raise something “video editing mission critical” that it actually “can’t” do, not something it can do perfectly well, just not the way you want it to – and I’ll be happy to listen.”
[David Roth Weiss] Forgetting about proper color, which is highly subjective, how about fields-related issues, which involve no subjectivity?
How exactly can you properly QC the output of FCPX without being able to see mismatched fields or reversed field order, both of which require proper video monitoring?
Evidently, you failed to listen even after saying you’d “be happy to listen.”
Nothing has changed since then Bill. No one exporting a finished piece from FCPX can really know if their video will pass QC at this time without proper professional monitoring. That applies to anyone, amateur or professional, not just pros creating feature films.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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