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Mid-market NAB happenings
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[Andrew Kimery] “Not to completely derail this thread”
I thought about putting my little rant in a post called “Resolve wins the race to the bottom?” as a separate discussion. Tim probably would have appreciated the page views!
I’m just bummed no one wants to talk about NUKE STUDIO. I know the word “gamechanger” is overused, but I think it actually applies here!
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Franz Bieberkopf] “One way to look at is that Blackmagic are the new entrant – and they’ve developed and brought a full-featured NLE to market – with a free tier.”
Of course I did not qualify this statement enough. BMD could not have done this without subsidizing it with earnings from elsewhere in their portfolio.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “It seems to me that this is one way of achieving it, and with different models from Apple, Adobe, Avid, Blackmagic, Lightworks, etc. etc. etc. it’s hard to say that there’s danger of one way of doing things crowding out others.”
I’m not arguing that Resolve wiping out the editorial market is inevitable — just pointing out that BMD is capable of destabilizing the market by sloshing around some revenue from ancillary markets. Not everyone competing in the space enjoys this luxury — small developers especially — and it may (or may not!) be negative in the long run for the industry.
I want the vendors I rely upon to thrive. I think it’s ultimately important for my own success.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
There is unquestionably an opportunity for competition, and it is coming in the form of Resolve, FCPX, Motion, Nuke and others you have mentioned on the NLE (with some compositing) front. Real competitors to AE, and Photoshop, not so much, not likely at the prices we have been used to when perpetual upgrades were a possibility. And certainly not for a while. Of course Adobe has to make money. But the current model seems heavy handed, at best. It would seem if their products are that good they could make up for exits/buyouts with new users. FCP X seems to be catching on from comments I have heard from educators, and they are the future. Whether younger editors stick with it is anyone’s guess.
Not all of us can afford $10,000 software packages, and I speak as the former Avid dealer in Hawaii, when systems ran $50-125k in 1990’s dollars. Also sold Media 100 which ran up to about $50k loaded. Video creativity was limited to very few in those days. (But it was a good time to be selling Avids!) Adobe seems to be headed toward a model of fewer and fewer higher end users with CC. We will see how it works out when all the promos expire and they have some true competition. And BTW, I actually like aspects of the hardware and software coming from the same company. You know who to praise and who to blame. We live in interesting times…
Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD -
[Mitch Ives] “I know it’s popular to hate capitalism these days”
Actually it used to be much more popular to hate capitalism back in the 30’s. Today capitalism is like an aging rock star waiting for a reality series; it’s a little long in the tooth, it’s on it’s third facelift, but the fans keep coming out to see the same old act for fear of trying something new.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Walter Soyka] “The Foundry has just shown NUKE STUDIO, an all-in-one-ish product that combines NUKEX with HIERO’s editorial timeline and adds real-time GPU timeline effects and background rendering.
This should be released later this year.
https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/nuke-studio/
Pricing is still TBD, but they said in the webcast that it will be an upgrade from NUKEX ($8144), and Production Collective ($9600) users get a free upgrade.
Assuming NUKE STUDIO works well, I think it will be a major competitor to Flame with a price tag relevant in the current decade.”
Just took a look at the demo… wow! I would NEVER have imagined that a tool like this could be offered for ~$10k. I’m curious to know what the folks at Autodesk think about this.
Shawn
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[Walter Soyka] “In your business experience, do you think it’d be possible for a new entrant to develop and bring a full-featured color corrector and NLE to market — and not charge a dime for it?”
Not on a permanent basis. Personally, I don’t expect them to give away for free forever (personally I’m buying it). Having said that, what about Apple buying Color and then including it for free? Obviously, they thought the good will and increased capability would sell more hardware. What if BMD is doing that short term?
In the course of watching the R11 demo, I was exposed to their 4K Thunderbolt rack unit as well as their rack mount dual LCD monitor, which interestingly was being used to display a waveform and vectorscope. I didn’t know you could use that dual monitor for that? Now I’m interested in their hardware… I wasn’t when I arrived in the booth. How’s that for creative marketing?
[Walter Soyka] “I don’t think anyone who knows me would suggest I hate capitalism! I’m actually looking at this from a capitalist perspective, as a consumer of these tools.
In rooting for a free product whose development is subsidized by the sale of something else, you are rooting for a product with absolutely zero accountability to its users (note I didn’t say customers) in the market. I guess if they’re ever dissatisfied, at least they can get their money back.”
I wasn’t suggesting that… don’t know you well enough for that… probably wouldn’t anyway.
FWIW, both myself and the guy I was with are skipping the free version and buying it. I suspect a lot of people will, in order to reward a positive behavior and to get faster development.
[Walter Soyka] “Resolve’s price tag, or lack thereof, could be a pretty strong disincentive for other companies to invest the resources necessary to develop or maintain a competitive product.
Underpriced and free products devalue the work of the developers who build the tools we need to do our jobs. If the industry that supplies us becomes toxic, how healthy will our industry really be long term?”
That’s a big stretch. Who says BMD isn’t thinking long-term. This is a big boy game and requires lots of money… ask Avid. I could make the same argument about FCP X, except small developers are making a fortune making plugins for it. Why not the same with R11? It’s using OpenFX… they were showing the Sapphire plugins in every demo. Isn’t that not only helping the small developer, but actually building an entire eco-system for them?
[Walter Soyka] “Resolve Lite for free makes me think of the proverbial kid with a camera that everyone here has been complaining about, living in his parents’ basement, who shoots with the 5D his parents bought him and charges $100/day. Except this time, WE are the clients excited about this new, low cost provider without understanding how the price is artificially and unsustainably depressed, and the kid is an ace DP showing up for free with a RED or Alexa and a full grip truck.”
Walter… as a highly talented individual, I know you aren’t discounting the skill involved in properly learning and mastering it? As to your second point, as Bill Davis has pointed out on many occasions, it’s too late to get that Genie back in the bottle. In fact, Apple has done more to foster this than anyone else IMO.
[Walter Soyka] “Let me be very clear: Resolve is a great product. I bought my license immediately upon its relaunch, and the BMD Resolve team has done an amazing job with it since they acquired it.
I’m not anti-Resolve, and I’m not calling for any kind of action. I am just concerned that this business model — much like Apple’s, where some really good software may be subsidized by unrelated hardware sold to different customers — MAY be negative for our industry in the long term by discouraging competitive development.”
I get that… I thought we were exchanging ideas and viewpoints? As for your last point, it’s a valid one. I get pissed every day because as a society I’m subsidizing the deadbeats out there every day. And you know, that might be okay if they showed the slightest bit of gratitude… 🙂
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” – Winston Churchill
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[Mitch Ives] “Personally, I don’t expect them to give away for free forever (personally I’m buying it). “
Why not? Resolve Lite has been free for years. They’ve actually gone the other way, removing key restrictions. It used to only work on HD resolutions and support 2 nodes per grade. Now it’s pretty much fully-featured, except for noise reduction and stereo?
[Mitch Ives] “Having said that, what about Apple buying Color and then including it for free?”
The key difference is Resolve Lite is absolutely free for anyone to download and use, whether you’re a BMD customer or not. Color was only “free” in the $1000 FCP Studio bundle.
[Mitch Ives] “In the course of watching the R11 demo, I was exposed to their 4K Thunderbolt rack unit as well as their rack mount dual LCD monitor, which interestingly was being used to display a waveform and vectorscope. I didn’t know you could use that dual monitor for that? Now I’m interested in their hardware… I wasn’t when I arrived in the booth. How’s that for creative marketing?”
No doubt this is exactly the plan. Use the software as a loss leader to sell hardware.
It is creative marketing, and I’m sure it’s good business for BMD.
But if it puts some hurt on other developers in this space that BMD is not actually trying to conduct a business in, that’s neutral for BMD and bad for us as users.
[Mitch Ives] “Who says BMD isn’t thinking long-term. This is a big boy game and requires lots of money… ask Avid.”
I’m sure BMD is thinking long-term, but they’re thinking about THEIR long-term. I’m thinking about mine. Say Avid decides they can’t compete with free Resolve NLE and pulls software-only Media Composer off the market, retreating to ISIS and Everywhere only (they won’t do this, but humor me). Does that make me better or worse off?
[Mitch Ives] “I could make the same argument about FCP X, except small developers are making a fortune making plugins for it.”
Given the ponderously low price for most effects and the smaller-than-expected sales of FCP X, I’m not sure that “making a fortune” is a good description of what developers are experiencing.
[Mitch Ives] “It’s using OpenFX… they were showing the Sapphire plugins in every demo. Isn’t that not only helping the small developer, but actually building an entire eco-system for them?”
Sure, a new host would be a plus for plugin developers. I would like to see more OFX on the desktop, anyway.
But I’ll borrow an analogy from Shawn Miller [link]. What if BMD buys the Boujou 3D tracker and bundles it for free in Resolve Lite 12? Lights out for Syntheyes?
Small developers can make major contributions that are not just plugins for other people’s hosts, but only if there’s a market that appropriately values their contributions.
[Mitch Ives] “Walter… as a highly talented individual, I know you aren’t discounting the skill involved in properly learning and mastering it? As to your second point, as Bill Davis has pointed out on many occasions, it’s too late to get that Genie back in the bottle. In fact, Apple has done more to foster this than anyone else IMO.”
This has nothing to do with the use of Resolve, which of course requires skill that is not included in the box or with the download.
This has everything to do with the degree to which awesome products like Resolve Lite being given away for free poisons the development market that supports our industry. I don’t know what that degree will be, but I’d rather see the industry trending toward healthy margins that keep the developers cranking out new stuff (even though it will cost me more) than low margins that force me to settle for less quality or variety in my choice of tools. I’m not saying Resolve Lite is going to ruin the industry, it just gives me a little pause, wondering if we’re collectively going down a healthy and sustainable path.
[Mitch Ives] “I get that… I thought we were exchanging ideas and viewpoints?”
I think we are? I didn’t mean any offense. I save that for the other debate forum!
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
you forget that bmd has a paid version for better efficiency ant cast 1k.
resolve lite is more directed at a different market.
1k is not bad i would pay more if it had more.i would not buy the hiero app that you try to slap me with because. i have no need for such tool nor for smoke.
ricardo marty
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I’m sure Blackmagic not only hurts developers, but it also hurt a lot of post houses that use Resolve as well (and paid for it), prices has gone down incredibly low for post services, and I remember a few years ago we were eager to buy new stuff that came out, now we’re like “do I really need this?”
I really love Resolve to death, but I despise Blackmagic for what they’re doing, and right now we’re tied to it because there are no other options, why should I invest in a 6 figure system when clients want to pay a figure less? -
I remember when Final Cut Pro was $999 and the same price was for Cinema Tools, then later on, these products began to become in a package. Before too long Motion and Color made its way into Final Cut Studio, before that Color was know as Final Touch, which was more expensive. I am not sure how disruptive Black Magic Design really is. They make their money off hardware as does Apple, so they can sell software for next to nothing. I can see how someone who spent 6 figures on a system would feel. To me it is a matter of perspective depending on when one entered the game and what the price of admission was at that time. My two cents, whatever it is worth.
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