Looking for HD video camera suggestions-Something Vegas friendly!

[Dave Haynie]

Yeah, I’m one of ’em.

I had been a Sony guy for years, from analog to digital-on-tape to HD, with the HDV-A1. But as the world was moving to tapeless, Sony was (at least a few years ago) still selling tape, just with SD cards. Panasonic was lowering prices (tapeless SHOULD cost less, all things being equal) and pushing multiple formats (60p, 60i, 30p, 24p, etc). They were also pushing 3-chip into lower price-points.. another honest improvement over my Sony gear (though Canon and Sony’s higher rez sensors with pixel bucketing are also a big improvement over the A1 era). They took the very intelligent move of delivering better video at the price of sucky stills… even in the consumer market.

So I have the HMC40 and the TM700. I’m kind of angry at Panasonic recently, for changing the battery. My HMC40, TM700, and the used HDC-SD9 I bought for my daughter four years ago (she started High School in the local “Communications Academy”, she’s going to college next fall at Montclair State (NJ) for Broadcasting) all use the same battery (the HMC40 can take a double-size battery as well). Still better than the battery-of-the-month-club that you find with Sony and Canon, but still. I like a system… it’s annoying to need so many different batteries, particularly once you matrix that across older cameras you still may use, HDSLRs, EVILs, etc.

-Dave

[Dave Petteruto]

Dave–the Panasonic HMC40 interests me. From my original post above, in your estimation does that camera fit the bill for what I’m looking for?

Thanks
Dave P.

Intel I7 950, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 SE, Vegas Pro 10 (32bit/64bit), Windows 7 Pro 64bit, LG WH10LS30 10X Bluray Burner.

[Dave Haynie]

Well, a couple of things. Even as a Sony HVR-A1 owner, I would steer very clear of the Sony HXR NX70U. It seems to be nothing but trouble.

Your VX2000’s have legendary low-light performance that I don’t think you’ll find in any HD Camcorder… maybe some of the very new 1/3″ 3-Chippers like the Canon XF300, well out of your price range (and certainly mine). I’ve gone over to the dark side of HDSLR use for low-light work 🙂

But the HMC40 does a dandy job on sports video. I’ve shot dozens of High School soccer games with this camera, it’s very capable. Three 1/4″ sensors certainly do better in low light than the single 1/3″ sensor of the HVR-A1… some of that’s certainly just the fact that newer sensors are always quieter — the technology is improving regularly. I shoot sports at 720/60p… might be debatable over 1080/60i or 1080/30p for football. But you have the choice.

For you budget, you could add the HMC150 these days; that’s a slightly older model (still actually using CCDs!) in the same line, 3-chips at 1/3″. But you’ll maybe have cash left over for a cup of coffee from your $3K budget.

I’d probably go for the HMC40 today, again. The price has dropped a bit since I bought mine, so it seems a pretty sweet deal. You’ll probably want the XLR module; that’s another $200+, but I want top-notch sound.

I’m keeping an eye on the HD-SLR tech going into interchangeable lens camcorders, and suspect that’s where I go next… naturally, keeping the HMC40 and TM700 as well. I picked up a micro-four-thirds “pocket” camera at Christmas, so I seem to already be collecting a few lenses for this. But HDSLRs are not the answer themselves, particularly for sports. AVCHD on sold-state is pretty great for sports — no worries about changing tapes at half-time… or not having enough tape if you got into overtime. Much less the HDSLR issue of 10-30 minute artificial recording limits.

Here are a couple of games shot on the HMC40.. obviously, translated to YouTube quality… it does 720p, but I’m sure it’s downconverted to 30p or 24p. I always shoot from tripod. Not many night or stadium games last season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpdQ6jCN2kg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKBhLjkDCjE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkEoC804CYY

-Dave

[Dave Petteruto]

Dave–thanks so much for the info and the video. I like what I see.

Thanks
Dave P.

Intel I7 950, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 SE, Vegas Pro 10 (32bit/64bit), Windows 7 Pro 64bit, LG WH10LS30 10X Bluray Burner.

[Angelo Mike]

Oh yeah, in cinema mode, the Canon Vixia HF S21 significantly cuts down on low light noise, though it will automatically adjust the shutter to 1/24 when it gets dark if you’re shooting at 24 fps, doing away with any film look. But at your budget you could buy three or four of these as well as a few batteries that will last for about 4 hours each and some other accessories like microphones.

http://www.scenethroughglass.com

[Angelo Mike]

Check this out.

https://nofilmschool.com/2012/04/sony-pmw-100-xdcam-sony-f5/

http://www.scenethroughglass.com

[Dave Haynie]

[Angelo Mike] “Oh yeah, in cinema mode, the Canon Vixia HF S21 significantly cuts down on low light noise, though it will automatically adjust the shutter to 1/24 when it gets dark if you’re shooting at 24 fps, doing away with any film look.

Yup… Any decent camcorder with 24p mode will let you shoot at 1/24th second, which is of course a 2.5 stop advantage over the 1/60th second minimum you have for true 1080/60i video (some 60i camcorders have offered slow-shutter modes that basically drop them to 30p recorded as 60i, others don’t have this facility).

The HF S21 is the 2010 model. I suppose today’s equivalent is the HF S30. This model uses a 1/2.6” 8.59Mpixel sensor, with pixel bucketing to simulate a 2Mpixel 3-chip system. Curiously, though, their consumer high-end model is now the HF G, which switches gears and supports a single-chip 1/3″ 2Mpixel sensor. Yeah, it’s the new technology used in the HF300 (3-chip) and HF100 (single chip), but as a veteran of the Sony HVR-A1, I’m very skeptical about single chip HD sensors — you can’t avoid Bayer color bleeding, no matter how great the sensor is.

I use a small higher end consumer camcorder, the Panasonic TM700 (also two models old now) as my “B” camera (well, give or take, depending on whether HDSLRs get involved), which is pretty handy since the 3-chip sensor and lens is very similar to my HMC40’s. But I want my main camera to be something at least a little substantial. The HMC40 is light and fairly compact, but it still works with real mics, it’s heavy enough to work on a Glidecam 2000, it’s got a proper handle on top, actual shoe for mounting a second mic or a light panel, etc.

With that said, some projects are just HDSLR projects.. not sure I’d use a second camcorder if I had to do it over again. I have a shoot tomorrow (video for a Kickstarter project), and we’re using two HDSLRs (my Canon 60D and our “web/art” guy’s T2i), and, particularly given my range of lenses, this would be nearly impossible with a conventional camcorder (part of this is filmed drawing on a whiteboard table… the 10mm lens on the Canon is wide enough, but just so). For something like this, I don’t even worry about on-camera audio, other than for sync; we have one lav mic with a dedicated flash recorder, and my H4n with an MXL shotgun mic on boom. You wind up needed a Beachtek or similar to use real mics with a compact camcorder or HDSLR. Maybe not a big issue for sports (though if you looked at my soccer videos, consider those are all shot with a Rode NTG-1 mic with a dead cat on it… if I had used the built-in, the wind at some of those games would literally howl… you’d pretty much want to cut the audio entirely).

-Dave

[Dave Petteruto]

OK–I’ve decided on the Panasonic HMC40! I’m wondering where the best place to purchase would be? I’m out in California, but it seems that even though it’s on the East coast B&H might be my best bet. Is it suggested that I get the extended warranty? B&H offers a 3 year plan for $215. What type of card is recommended? I shoot lots of football with the recordings usually lasting about 40 minutes. Obviously reliability is very important so I don’t care what the cost of the card is. I will probably buy two cards so I have a backup.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Dave P.

Intel I7 950, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 SE, Vegas Pro 10 (32bit/64bit), Windows 7 Pro 64bit, LG WH10LS30 10X Bluray Burner.

[John Rofrano]

[Dave Petteruto] “I’m wondering where the best place to purchase would be? I’m out in California, but it seems that even though it’s on the East coast B&H might be my best bet.”

I buy all of my gear at B&H, I can highly recommend them. Excellent prices and awesome customer service.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Dave Haynie]

Ditto… bought my HMC40 at B&H, most other gear as well. I should probably just arrange to have a few paychecks a year sent to them directly. They’re a 2.5hr trip from me if I really want to visit in person, but I’d buy from them even if I was out on the left coast.

-Dave