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Lightworks
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[Robert Brown] “Having the computer scan and organize your footage for you is a gimmick – although it may be useful at times, but there will NEVER be a replacement for seeing the footage with your own eyes.”
This is not at all what I meant. By metadata, I meant the editor tagging clips or ranges of clips as good, bad, whatever. My understanding of a selects reel is a string out of good clips to reference when looking for a shot. Such a technique is superseded by user-generated metadata marking clips as good, bad, whatever. I’m arguing selects reels are an outmoded organizational workflow in the context of FCPX or any other metadata-centric tool.
Best,
Andy -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “I’m not sure that captures what a selects reel’s function is – but I’d let someone besides me who actually knows what they’re talking about step in on that one.”
My mostly ignorant understanding of selects reels are that they are string outs of good takes used to primarily to locate shots. Like a playable bin, so to speak. If that isn’t correct, I’m keen to know what they really are for.
Best,
Andy -
[Ron Pestes] “And in 12 months think of how much farther ahead Adobe and Avid will be…”
Indeed. I’d imagine NAB of next year is Apple’s deadline to prove they are still serious about pro video editing. NAB is when Premiere Pro CS6 will be released, and it should be a very appealing upgrade, since it will include feature enhancements that were requested by the FCP refugees. By NAB Media Composer 6 will also be out, and that will also be significant and appealing since it’s making the leap to 64 bit.
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“THAT’S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine… But after this windmill it’s the future or bust.” -
Nah that’s my understanding too. Its just that I don’t see how metadata relates to the practise of selects reels. Consciously trimming and preparing a reel of takes for viewing and use in the main edit or whathaveyou is pretty different to just dragging a yellow bounding box around something and typing ‘selects’ in the keyword box.
Metadata is getting kind of crazily overrated and overstated in this release IMHO. You’d swear it was the ark of the covenant or something?http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
[Andrew Richards] “since I’m more of an engineer than an editor, I don’t fully understand the need for a persistent source monitor. “
When cutting dramatic or narrative material you’re dealing with continuity, cutting on action, and match cutting between takes much more so that in other forms of filmmaking.
Actors are not robots and as such they do things a bit differently in every take. So, when cutting this type of material, you’re consistently making edits from similar, yet very different takes, most of which have innumerable variables, and both good and bad elements, all of which must be considered, requiring you to see both the A & B sides of the moving action on virtually every shot at all times.
For instance, something as insignificant as hand position can become the most important factor in a dialog scene. Even though you might simply be inserting simple back and forth exchange of lines into a dialog scene, you must carefully cut around the hand positions of both actors on both sides of every cut so the cuts are seamless and so the audience is unaware of the cuts.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[Andrew Richards] “Such a technique is superseded by user-generated metadata marking clips as good, bad, whatever. I’m arguing selects reels are an outmoded organizational workflow in the context of FCPX or any other metadata-centric tool.
“Metadata doesn’t supersede anything. It’s a tool to use as you wish. If you read Walter Murch’s book “Blink of an Eye” you will see that no technique has been outmoded. He’s worked with about everything out there and finds benefits in any system no matter how antiquated. It’s simply how you chose to work and the nature of your material. What tends to happen is that some material on first look may have seemed unusable but later on it saves your ass.
Where I work we definitely don’t use clip reels like we used to but use XMLs like a clip reel from our Dalet system. I don’t know how many times I’ve had somebody give me an XML of pre-selected shots where nothing was useable, and then by simply matching into the real and scanning forward and back a few minutes you find something much better. Like I said before, there is no substitute for actually looking at what was shot even if it’s already been evaluated and sometimes that means going through long reels.
I just got back from Taiwan working with the editorial dept on “Life of Pi”. It is still common practice for a director to not call “cut” and then just reset while still rolling. And then if you get into things like shooting young children and animals where you can have 10-15 minute rolls just trying to get the perfect thing. Metadata won’t help you with that. You might have to look through every bit of that material many times before you find the exact right bit. And feature editing is very much about going through EVERYTHING to make sure your using the best take you have. It’s pretty painful and you need something that scans smooth because you might be doing it for a while.
This is one reason why some people are rejecting FCPX. Apple acts like they have solved an old problem through their amazing technology but unfortunately that old problem is just the nature of the beast.
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Yeah I’m really looking forward to that. It will be interesting to see if Apple even does NAB. I mean why would they? If there is no video out then it’s not broadcast.
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[David Roth Weiss] “So, when cutting this type of material, you’re consistently making edits from similar, yet very different takes, most of which have innumerable variables, and both good and bad elements, all of which must be considered, requiring you to see both the A & B sides of the moving action on virtually every shot at all times. “
Agree. FCPX only begrudgingly gives you a two-up A/B while actively trimming. It ought to be available under more circumstances than that. I still think there are times a two-up would be wasting screen real estate, but FCPX is too stingy with it today.
Best,
Andy -
DUPLICATE POST
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “Consciously trimming and preparing a reel of takes for viewing and use in the main edit or whathaveyou is pretty different to just dragging a yellow bounding box around something and typing ‘selects’ in the keyword box.”
True, kind of like the miniature pre viz sculpture an artist might make while developing the final casting (Rodin did that anyway). My impression was that the selects reel was less conptemplative than that, and more of a playable bin that didn’t require opening each clip in the bin to scrub through them. A selects collection in FCPX could give you that kind of quick access to screening good takes (mouse over, JKL, repeat), but it wouldn’t put you through the rigor of laying anything out as any kind of a rough edit.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “Metadata is getting kind of crazily overrated and overstated in this release IMHO. You’d swear it was the ark of the covenant or something?”
It’s really powerful when embraced. A lot of well-worn techniques are analogs for metadata, except the computer isn’t aware of them. Metadata is what you make of it.
Best,
Andy
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