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It is patently obvious…
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[Simon Ubsdell] “It is of course not without irony that every single one of your examples is a retro franchise in one way or another … “
I know, it was by design. Also it was easier to find current examples on youtube. lol I’m sure if I looked I could find some nice, original indie feature trailers with 3D titles.
[Simon Ubsdell] “On top of that some of them look as though they may have been done as 2D anyway … a texture and a bevel on their own don’t make 3D.”
Very true. But a “flat” title with a 3D bump map/texture and lighting is generally going to look better than the same thing created as 2D. That’s the more likely use… for me anyway. I agree the examples I posted are closer to the over the top Apple Demo titles than anything with taste and refinement. 😉
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
I know – and you’re not wrong – it looks well implemented, and to be fair, I didn’t pick 2005-2009 because 3D titles start turning up… So. For my money the 3D titles that jump into my head are Harry Potter in the later films. Big, monolithic, super moody. That slow drift through them into the opening shot is pretty iconic. That said they’re some pretty serious photorealistic maya polygon creation but still, they’re as 3D distressed metallic as it gets…
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Charlie Austin] “a “flat” title with a 3D bump map/texture and lighting is generally going to look better than the same thing created as 2D.
I’d seriously have to dispute that – it all depends on the skill of the designer. There are a thousand and one techniques for creating extremely subtle, interesting and complex effects in 2D. But obviously the Apple tool makes it a lot easier for the novice to get something that looks almost as good as a well-designed 2D title.
Ironically, by far the most striking and iconic title in your group of trailers is Star Wars – and the thing that makes it truly iconic is the faux-naif flat outline component, which was of course retro way back when we first saw it!
[Charlie Austin] I agree the examples I posted are closer to the over the top Apple Demo titles than anything with taste and refinement. ;-)”
I was only pulling your leg really with that comment (I’m sure Aindreas is just in it for the gags too, if he’s honest!), but my point was not that the movies are all franchises of one kind of another, but that they all hark back to another era. And hence the point was that their use of 3D is not fresh and modern but consciously retro.
There’s a thing here that really bugs me as someone who’s been making trailers for along as I have, and that’s the presumption that all real trailers have 3D metallic titles. As you know better than anyone else this is about as crass as assuming that all trailers still currently employ a big, booming voice-over that begins by announcing “In a world …”.
Yes, it does seem that 3D is making something of a comeback but it’s worth pointing out that this is after a really long period when the dominant aesthetic was flat – except for huge Summer tentpole releases.
But if you want to see some really great 3D titles, here’s a terrific piece (Some breathtakingly good, some breathtakingly bad):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VOCiPWj_w
For me, the 3D titles that get me excited are things like the Transformers title – it’s about so much more than just the text aspect. The text is usually subsidiary to some really strong 3D geometry that dominates the design – e.g the Narnia title would look pretty weak without the 3D mountain background to give it depth and colour contrast and an epic sense of scale; Mars Needs Moms is made by the cute little rocket animation, etc.
Titles are only ever as good as the designer, as this reel shows.
I absolutely agree that you can create great looks very easily with Apple’s offering – but as you yourself suggested, the less they actually look like 3D they better they will look, most of the time. I’m just hoping we aren’t assailed by a foetid slurry of unspeakable design on the back of this – but I’m not holding my breath.
Simon Ubsdell
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[Simon Ubsdell] “I’d seriously have to dispute that – it all depends on the skill of the designer. There are a thousand and one techniques for creating extremely subtle, interesting and complex effects in 2D.”
Agreed. My point, such as it is, is that 3D text that’s as easy 2d text in an NLE is not a useless feature. Whether it’s good to use is another topic. 😉
[Simon Ubsdell] “the Apple tool makes it a lot easier for the novice to get something that looks almost as good as a well-designed 2D title.
“Yep… that describes my mograph skillzz. 🙂
[Simon Ubsdell] “There’s a thing here that really bugs me as someone who’s been making trailers for along as I have, and that’s the presumption that all real trailers have 3D metallic titles. As you know better than anyone else this is about as crass as assuming that all trailers still currently employ a big, booming voice-over that begins by announcing “In a world …”.”
Absolutely true. Big action, horror etc, usually do use 3D-ish stuff. But there are a lot of great 2D titles as well. I really only dragged these out since we’re talking about 3D. Speaking of blockbusters, I like the Mad Max title treatment which seems 2D… who knows… And nobody uses VO anymore. It’ll make a comeback though. I believe you can record VO in FCP X too! lol
[Simon Ubsdell] ” I’m just hoping we aren’t assailed by a foetid slurry of unspeakable design on the back of this – but I’m not holding my breath.”
Well, since nobody that cuts Trailers use FCP X, any 3D text will be coming from somewhere else. 😉 But YouTube is gonna be lousy with ’em…
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
Yeah, well, when the Mac first came out in 1984 – there was a brief flurry when far too much simple communication looked like ransom notes. And the use of San Francisco as a font was a sure sign of a type newbie.
But things settled down.
And today, all these years later – the FACT that the Mac ecosystem is almost universally acknowledged to be typesetter-friendly is probably part of why the “temp” fonts in Focus ended up being brought across into the final film.
You’ve got to start somewhere – even if that somewhere includes “extra extrusion.”
And so it goes.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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I was expecting some nonsense jibberish with 4 point corner pin effect thingy added in. Still, that was very brilliant. Post of the month award goes, drum roll please, Charlie Austin! This comment was not from some galaxy far away.
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I have no issue with a 3D title but 3D movies are a bit overrated, not to mention the motion sickness they invoke.
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[Charlie Austin] “I cut trailers Herb. They will come in handy.”
Seriously and out of curiosity, since I’ve never cut trailers – I would have thought that you would be using the title treatments of the film itself – doesn’t the distributor provide graphic elements for that? Or am I being naive?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Seriously and out of curiosity, since I’ve never cut trailers – I would have thought that you would be using the title treatments of the film itself – doesn’t the distributor provide graphic elements for that? Or am I being naive?”
It depends. If they’ve “branded” it already, then we use what they have, though we often recreate it… But a lot of the time, whoever works on the campaign first will create the title/gfx treatment which is often not the same as the films title treatment. If it’s with multiple vendors (which it always is) each one usually makes their own version (same font/treatment…) so they can make their own cards etc. When the TV campaign gets going, 2 spots from different vendors can have slightly, or wildly different gfx treatments. Go to traileradddict.com and watch TV spots (for “big” multivendor movies) back to back and you’ll likely notice it.
And sometimes the look will change mid-stream if someone comes up with something better. As the campaign winds down, maybe they’ll have one vendor provide gfx to everyone, or everyone keeps making their own using the same style. The studios have the final say and provide direction, but generally we just use whatever gfx, mx, and other elements we want and they approve/kill it.
It’s not all 3D either. 😉
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “[Herb Sevush] “Seriously and out of curiosity, since I’ve never cut trailers – I would have thought that you would be using the title treatments of the film itself – doesn’t the distributor provide graphic elements for that? Or am I being naive?””
On occasion, I’ve even had the opposite happen – where the production liked our graphics so much they used them for the film itself. In fact, this happened to me again only this week.
(Or the distributor like the trailer graphics so much they get used for the poster campaign, and so on.)
it’s worth bearing in mind that trailer companies are usually working on the movie a very long time before it’s even finished, or indeed completed principal photography.
Other than that, what Charlie said in his response pretty much covers it.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com
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