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ISO Audio Tracks
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what’s more important is whether your sound guy can provide that.
Ty Ford
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Hi Ryan,
Is all this clear??? It’s important that you understand.
If you are shooting on a digital camera then a production mix track could be sent to the camera. If it were me, I would use Ty’s method of one channel being lower to cover any unforseen peaks. For you, these “mix” tracks will come in with the ingestion process of the camera tapes. Use only one track and mute the other. This is your production “work” track, or “guide” track.
If the sound mixer will use a 788, then the individual mics will be “iso ed” on their own individual tracks to be used later by the dialogue guys. I can’t imagine more than six tracks being used for this unless this is a new Altman picture!! In that case, the mixer should have 2 tracks left to put the “mix” or “guide” track, for safety, in case anything happens to camera.
Your job is to tell the story with picture and dialogue. The production mixer’s job is to capture the best dialogue possible, and give you something good to work with. This is, at the same time, easier and harder with the advent of multi-tracking. In the old days, the mono mix was all there was. Now, we have choices, but too often, this has led to a softening of technique and craft.
Ah, there I go again..haha.. If all else fails, take the primary boom track and use that. You can always request alternate tracks (lavs, plants, etc.) if you have a problem…
G
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Hi Greg,
I feel at this point I should backtrack a bit and provide some additional information since the subject matter (iso tracks) involves more than just the audio recorder and production sound mixer…
1. We are shooting on the Red One camera and I’m trying to decide between requesting Data DVDs from production sound or if I should ask the Red Tech to backup the audio files onto the two on-set hard drives that are being used for the R3D storage/backup. Since everything is going to end up on the editing drive anyway this would help streamline the process (and also allow on-set syncing of sound for playback-if audio and picture are recorded separately).
2. In regards to dual-system sound, I’m not sure how common it is to connect a wireless receiver to the Red One camera in order to record a mono mixed track with the picture? There are a lot of steadicam shots so having the audio recorder directly connected to the camera isn’t always going to be an option. (I’ve posted this question on the Red Network.)
3. If this dual-system method is NOT standard practice I imagine the other option is to record the mono mixed track and iso tracks on the audio recorder and sync everything in post using the timecode/slate.
That’s the situation I’m working with. If you have any recommendations I’d really appreciate it.
Thanks, Ryan
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1. We are shooting on the Red One camera and I’m trying to decide between requesting Data DVDs from production sound or if I should ask the Red Tech to backup the audio files onto the two on-set hard drives that are being used for the R3D storage/backup. Since everything is going to end up on the editing drive anyway this would help streamline the process (and also allow on-set syncing of sound for playback-if audio and picture are recorded separately).
2. In regards to dual-system sound, I’m not sure how common it is to connect a wireless receiver to the Red One camera in order to record a mono mixed track with the picture? There are a lot of steadicam shots so having the audio recorder directly connected to the camera isn’t always going to be an option. (I’ve posted this question on the Red Network.)
3. If this dual-system method is NOT standard practice I imagine the other option is to record the mono mixed track and iso tracks on the audio recorder and sync everything in post using the timecode/slate.
Ryan,
Anything else you’re not telling us?
Why would your audio recorder be connected to the camera?
3. yes, that’s correct.
Ty Ford
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I apologize for my lack of detail in the beginning, I just never expected this thread to go so far beyond iso track terminology. To answer your question, the audio recorder would have to feed the Red One camera a mixed track if you wanted to have the picture and sound recorded together on the R3D files. I imagine this would be done either using a wireless receiver or a direct connection to the camera. Thanks, Ryan
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Ryan,
Why would you feed a recorder to a camera. That’s what a mixer is for.
Ty Ford
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Hi Ryan,
What Ty and the rest of us are trying to get to is that the recorder normally doesnt send anything anywhere. You have far bigger problems with the paperwork than worrying about the guide track.
Here’s a suggested workflow: Multi-track using a 788T or similar recorder. Back-up files daily to 2 drives (one goes to you). Ask the mixer to record a mono mix track on, say CH8 of the recorder, and also feed that track to the camera for a guide (let him figure out whether to wire or RF). Done. You cut from camera tracks and conform later.
Unless something has changed in the last month, your bigger problem stems from the fact that the RED uses proprietary file names. As far as I know, you cannot log scene and take. I just finished a show last month using RED. We decided to duplicate the RED file names on Sound (just so there was no possibility of mismatch) and keep a 3-way log (camera, sound, script) of the file names and corresponding scene/take numbers. This must be iron clad, or you will never find your tracks. The RED simply increments the takes within a given “roll” number. You, as the editor,can always rename all the files to a more conventional format, but don’t forget to change all the sound too!!
Also be aware that the RED loses TC jam at every battery change, so sound needs a fast jamming scenario…
Are we havin’ fun yet??
G
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Nice one, Greg.
Regards,
Ty
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I really appreciate your help Greg! Your workflow info helps, I’ll definitely request that the mono mixed track be fed to the camera if possible. In terms of labeling I was thinking of having the audio labeled by scene, take, and track and then in FCP I would rename the video. The Red Tech is going to keep a log of the R3D filenames, scenes/takes, etc that I can use as a resource. Then, if the mono mixed track was recorded on the camera I would start cutting otherwise I would start by merging the mono mixed track with the video. Once I got final cut I would go back through and drop all the additional audio tracks into the timeline before creating an OMF for post sound. I think I’ve got a pretty clear idea of how this works now.
Here’s the next step that I’m trying to figure out. With the video and audio merged, each containing the scene and take information, I could create an OMF and hand it off to post sound with a hard drive containing all the iso tracks or I can drop all the iso tracks into the timeline before creating the OMF in order to save post sound time. What I’m not sure about is the BWF workflow in FCP. There are programs such as BWF2XML but I was told the OMF will lose the metadata and Protools doesn’t accept Quicktime movie audio files. Any advice from you guys would really be appreciated. Thanks, Ryan
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Hi Ryan,
I think it’s prudent to have your sound report list the corresponding camera file names as well. All due respect to your RED tech, but even with three cross logs, there were some takes that were still mis-matched. In the heat of production, don’t you know…
As far as I know our editors use BWF2XML and the OMF from FCP DOES NOT carry sound metadata to ProTools. So I don’t think source TC drag and drop will work. And ProTools absolutely DOES accept Quicktime picture and track.
Let me double check my facts and get back to you… Can anybody else confirm or deny my allegations?
G
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