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Is anyone using Motion?
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[Robin S. Kurz] “Mind you, I explicitly asked about exchanging files with clients, not co-workers/partners! Those are obviously two entirely different things. So when’s the last time you had to exchange actual project files with a client? Just as I don’t send original, editable text documents to clients, but rather printouts, PDFs, whatever, I don’t know why I would want to send original project files to a client. If they have the app and can work it (why else would they need them??), then what am I working for them for? ?”
We are asked for project files about 50% of the time, and we ourselves require projects files from any subcontractors 100% of the time. End clients almost never actually use the files, but if you’re going to invest significant money in their creation, why on earth wouldn’t you want them?
We sometimes even send project files to competitors, because agency work is highly collaborative. Everything in a campaign has to work together.
[Robin S. Kurz] “I took those 50+ assets for both maps and made one Motion title from them with merely three pop-up menus for each region to choose the condition from, and one for which map. That being the first thing that is a complete impossibility in AE, btw.”
Maybe it’s been a while since you’ve used Ae, but this is not impossible anymore. Ae/Pr added support for dropdown lists sometime last year. Also, Ae has native support for CSV and JSON data, so this workflow could be 100% automated in an Adobe workflow — with no data re-entry required by the editor.
Basic comps can play in real-time now, too. Motion still has a massive performance advantage, but truly simple comps do just play.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Tony West] “I could do anything that came to mind with it and I really hadn’t trained on it at all. I found it simple to use and It allowed me to do more than simple cutting in the timeline.”
I agree with you, Tony. I had some After Effects experience, but it was Motion and its immediacy (back in the v1-3 days) that really put me on the path to motion design.
I always viewed Motion as a kind of a sketchpad — a great place to play, almost. A place to experiment, see what you can do, and iterate really, really quickly. But it’s an imperfect analogy, because unlike my sketchbook, Motion’s output is suitable for public consumption.
I also think that Apple has done a great job of making Motion discoverable. As a new user, you can ease yourself into it — before you get into the layering complexity that Dirk and Simon are talking about. Adobe is making some efforts here in Ae with some content and new features, but the core of Ae still presents a significant learning curve.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “I always viewed Motion as a kind of a sketchpad”
I will break my vow and jump in here.
The sketchpad thing is precisely why I am still using Motion.
These days I will almost always finish in After Effects (in large part because it’s essential that I can hand off to other designers at a moment’s notice), but for rapidly working towards an initial design concept through instant iteration, Motion still makes a lot of sense to me.
Many motion graphics designers have weeks or months to design a concept. I usually have about an hour.
I’m not going to waste that hour in an application that doesn’t allow me as many iterations as Motion.
Good design is iterations.
It really is as simple as that.
Simon Ubsdell
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This is slightly off-topic, but a number of you have mentioned making initial concepts or comps for clients. That was one of the most frustrating things for me because I almost always had issues with the client being unsatisfied with the comp. This, of course, was after they already agreed to the idea of having comps used as a way to preview the direction they/we wanted to go. Conversations would usually go something like:
Client: It doesn’t have x, y, z. It doesn’t look finished.
Us: This is the “pre-vis” of the direction we discussed going with this animation. It’s only a place holder for now as we create the finished design.
Client: Right, but it doesn’t look good.
Us: Of course. This is just a low-resolution mock-up of the direction we’re going. It’s not the finished animation.
Client: Oh yea, I know, but it doesn’t look good. Where’s x, y, and z?
Us: This is only the first draft. We’re still working on getting to the finished animation. It will take a few rounds before we get to higher resolution animation that contains x, y, and z. This was on the schedule and we discussed this in our pre-production meetings.
Client: Right! Right. I just wish it looked more…finished.
Us:
Anyone else had that?
Winston A. Cely
ACTC Media Broadcasting Video Instructor
Apple Certified Editor FCPX 3\”If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling illusion it has been mastered.\” – Stanley Kubrick
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For better or worse, the days when you could show a client “work in progress” are long gone.
Simon Ubsdell
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[Winston A. Cely] “Anyone else had that?”
All the time. I grade & do sound post so it is typical that I send a grade pass with the editors original rough audio or a mix with ungraded pics depending on the workflow. Half the notes will be about work yet to be done. No matter how many times I say in notes that it is “only the grade – audio is temp” I often get copious misdirected notes. I am beginning to wonder if there is a generation of directors and producers that have zero imagination and need everything in a finished state to make any decisions about anything.
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Simon, I just watched your video — well done as always!
Since you’ve already broken your vow, could you talk a little bit about your transition from prototype to production?
Is your client in with you on the process, or do you keep the prototype to yourself? Do you always go from prototype to production, or do you find yourself going back and forth a lot? Do you ever struggle to get your production work polished enough to best the prototype?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Dirk de Jong] “The combination of Parameter Behaviors (such as Link) and the “Rigging” feature is actually very powerful, way more powerful than most people would think (I suspect it’s probably more powerful than people at Apple would think)”
Bingo. Several brilliant examples of exactly what I’m talking about. I’m especially impressed with the GLITCH effects and their functionality. Kudos!
Perfect examples of why “Motion vs. AE” as a whole is not a thing, nor has it ever been (at least for those in the know). None of the above would have been possible with AE. Plain and simple. So again, if you’re using AE in the context of FCP for anything even vaguely along these lines, things Motion was and is designed for(!) you’re shooting yourself in the foot. As there are many things that AE caters to that would be nonsensical to expect from Motion. But people do it anyway. Usually just to prove why somehow AE is “superior” and flat out the better choice (i.e. to justify their choice, without knowing anything about Motion), with no regard for actual and relevant context.
[Walter Soyka] “we ourselves require project files from any subcontractors 100% of the time. End clients almost never actually use the files”
My point exactly, yes. Thank you.
[Walter Soyka] “but if you’re going to invest significant money in their creation, why on earth wouldn’t you want them?”
So if I write a poem for a client I also give them the original Word document? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.
Again, if the original project files are of any actual practical use to them (which to this day never has nor would have been), then I seriously question why they’re even having me make them, to begin with. If that’s different in your world, so be it. ??♂️
That’s not including the actual project files that I, of course, have to give to a client for my work to even fulfill its purpose in the case of Motion i.e. as with my example. But since none of that is even possible with AE, that’s not what we’re talking about anyway.
The only possible reason I could think of why the files could be of any relevance to them (outside of that obvious case) is if they intended to pass them along to yet another party to build upon or copy my work. Something that I am not inclined to facilitate. But then my clients know all of that in advance anyway (that they are not getting original project files from me), so they would never ask to begin with, nor have they ever.
[Walter Soyka] “Maybe it’s been a while since you’ve used Ae, but this is not impossible anymore. Ae/Pr added support for dropdown lists sometime last year.”
Maybe it’s been a while since you’ve used Motion, or… have you ever? Because there is no comparison as to what each offers in terms of “dropdown lists”. That being one of three possibilities, btw. Motion has infinitely more options, possibilities, and flexibility. Sorry, but what AE offers in that respect in comparison is truly on an entirely different, very small planet.
[Walter Soyka] “Ae has native support for CSV and JSON data, so this workflow could be 100% automated in an Adobe workflow — with no data re-entry required by the editor.”
Aside from the fact that the need to use either would have set a hurdle high enough to once again relegate the use of said templates to only a select few editors in the group, as opposed to everyone, neither would have even made any practical sense in the aforementioned example. So while that functionality is surely great and super powerful when needed (given the expertise to even implement it, to begin with… which includes, what? a low single-digit percentage of AE users?), it’s irrelevant in this case.
[Walter Soyka] “Basic comps can play in real-time now, too. Motion still has a massive performance advantage, but truly simple comps do just play.”
So how often to you pull out AE of all things to do “basic” or “truly simple comps”? Ever? You wouldn’t just do them in PPro?
And even then that would be entirely dependent on the machine you’re using whether that even holds true. In other words on e.g. a low-end MacBook even those “basic comps” would struggle. My example on the other hand played realtime on said MacBooks, which is/was essential, so as not to falsify the intended or rather expected result for even the most novice of users. At least that’s the difference that counts for me, the client, and the VAST majority of users I deal with on a daily basis. Not C4D integration, scripting, 3D trackers, (all of which you can get from 3rd parties btw, if so inclined) or whatever else super-specialty use-case you can come up with as an argument. Those people for whom the lack of those things are somehow a deal-breaker are a huge minority and obviously would never even consider Motion. And if they did, I’d have to seriously question their knowledge and expertise in that area anyway. That’s like dogging Pages for not having MACROS. Nonsensical and completely missing the most basic point of its intended purpose or existance.
– RK
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[Robin S. Kurz] “So how often to you pull out AE of all things to do “basic” or “truly simple comps”? Ever? You wouldn’t just do them in PPro?”
Literally, all the time. I know there’s some people who like mogrts and use them inside of Premiere Pro but to me the endless level of customization available in AE makes it a no-brainer to do even simple comps there. And Walter is correct, comps play back just fine in AE. I have no issues playing back comps in real time in AE.
Also, AE projects are shared between motion graphics artists and editors on many projects and so it makes no logical sense to use Motion when most people are using AE as their primary motion graphics software.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tmprods
http://tallmanproductions.net
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